Zumo: gps for dummies ?

[Jon]

- You can't switch off neither AutoZoom nor Off Route Recalculation. This makes, in my opinion, the Zumo useless for all kinds of active riding. It can't be used as a Moving Map nor as a Co-Driver showing up-coming bends.

Surely if you have no route selected, you can use it as a moving map?

It ain't looking good though, is it...................

 

[sanqhar]

Does this address one of the points?

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2006/10/chets_corner_tr.html#more

Not owning a GPS (considering a 2610 or a Zumo) I am still trying to work out what I need to understand (do I know what I want?). I am following this thread with interest.

As I understand it the 2610 can allow you to go off route without recalculating and also will show a moving map. The Zumo won't do either.

These points together with the current 2610 cost are pointing me towards the 2610.

Am going to the NEC next week so will see what offers are available.

 

[HMR]

Surely if you have no route selected, you can use it as a moving map?

I'm not shure if the autozoom thing still destroys the map.

For Moving Map navigation it's of course OK to ride without route but the co-driver thing really needs the fat red line.

 

[HMR]

Does this address one of the points?

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2006/10/chets_corner_tr.html#more

Interesting. This is obviously his reply to my post. He's really trying to give a full reply but part of the problem is that Garmin don't understand. In US they don't have curves and all bikers rides HD. Chet just can't grasp concepts as "curves", "active riding" and "moving map". In the US they have only straight roads between crossings. At a crossing you go right, left or straight. That's it. Therefore they prefer guiding. Garmin forces the Zumo to GUIDE always and in all situations. Garmin don't understand that in Europe we have CURVES and we want to see the ROAD on the screen. Thats why they always recalculate. Thats why it's not important to them to switch off "Autozoom".

As I understand it the 2610 can allow you to go off route without recalculating and also will show a moving map. The Zumo won't do either.

These points together with the current 2610 cost are pointing me towards the 2610.

It's not really this simple.

First. The SP2610 is a great device that will do the job. Ok. And at a fair price too.

But the Zumo is a magnificient machine! The recalculation problem can be handled by inserting a few extra waypoints in the route.

Garmin is now, as I'm writing this, seriously considering to make it possible to switch off Autozoom. Not that they can undertand why - but more with the purpose of making us weird europeans happy. Wait a few weeks and see what happens.

 

[JDH]

I've found out a few more things about the Zumo. At least about the pre-series version. Production devices may be different.

- The Zumo has, it seems, unlimited storage capacity for routes, waypoints & track logging. It can read/write this data to/from the SD card. This makes the Zumo a winner for long time & long distance travel.

- You can't switch off neither AutoZoom nor Off Route Recalculation. This makes, in my opinion, the Zumo useless for all kinds of active riding. It can't be used as a Moving Map nor as a Co-Driver showing up-coming bends.

It seems as Garmin with the Zumo aims only at taking customers from TomTom. This means aiming only for the dummies. Pity since the only feature the more active bikers needs is the option to switch off a few automatic thin

I'm very disappointed and I'll be very carefull with my 276C in the future. It's old technology yes but it's doing the job. Someting the Zumo isn't able to do. It's very disappointing to see that Garmin is going backwards in usability and GPS-functions. Instead they are adding nonsense as MP3-player and photo album.

Maybe one should consider buying a Nokia N95 GPS instead. It has much more features than the Zumo. At a lower price! 5 megapixel autofocus camera, 7-band cell phone, FM radio, video camera, calculator, alarm clock, web browser, MP3-player, USB-memory stick, etc, etc.

You my friend have got your head stuck up your backside imho. Just because some bikers don't require the advanced features that are available on a number of units, that makes them 'dummies' according to you. Garmin are doing exactly the right thing in competing with TomTom for a share of a very lucrative market, but you seem to think that they should pander just to people like you. Haven't you got enough choice ffs? Do you think Garmin decide on a whim to produce something like this? Of course not, they do their research and having recognised a niche in the market, manufacture a product which they hope will deliver. I don't want or need some of the more advanced features offered by such as the 2820, and I am pleased that my choice has been widened with the introduction of the Zumo. So, don't be so keen (prematurely) to slag off a piece of equipment that may well be just what is needed by a lot of bikers.

JDH

 

[HMR]

You my friend have got your head stuck up your backside imho. Just because some bikers don't require the advanced features that are available on a number of units, that makes them 'dummies' according to you.

Uh hu! Must have stept on something sore. I apologize. Seek first to understand before being understood.

 

[Taff]

Whoevers going to the bike show needs to print this thread out and take it to the Garmin stand and get some definite yes/no answers.

Do Garmin have a stand at the NEC, because I don't remember seeing one before?

I have printed it off though and will take it with me tomorrow - just in case.

 

[HMR]

Just because some bikers don't require the advanced features that are available on a number of units, that makes them 'dummies' according to you. Garmin are doing exactly the right thing in competing with TomTom for a share of a very lucrative market, but you seem to think that they should pander just to people like you. I don't want or need some of the more advanced features offered by such as the 2820, and I am pleased that my choice has been widened with the introduction of the Zumo. So, don't be so keen (prematurely) to slag off a piece of equipment that may well be just what is needed by a lot of bikers.

I think I need to comment to this more in detail if you excuse me for doing so.

In most situations we are all Dummies. As a brain sugeon, fighter pilot, gourmet chef, etc, etc I'm the dummest of Dummies. But one should be able to survive without being an expert. Therefore cars, video recorders, elevators and GPS navigators should be designed for Dummies. Cars are, but video recorders are not. Garmin is putting a lot of resources into making GPS navigators for Dummies and that is good.

One very important issue in making tech gadgets easy to use is to take away all alternative settings, calibration, initiation, etc. That's why the maps should be preloaded. That's why more and more functions are "intelligent" or automatic.

If you think that Garmin 276C or Garmin 2820 are more "advanced" or "powerful" than the Zumo you are very wrong. Zumo is by far more powerful and that's where the problem begins. We, the more experienced GPS users, we indeed want the Zumo!

To make the very advanced Zumo possible to operate by the ordinary US biker Garmin must make the user interface as simple as possible and automate as many functions as possible.

But at this moment Garmin has gone a little to far. By omitting a couple of critical setup alternatives (Recalculation=Off and Autozoom=Off) they efficently kill the possibilities to use the Zumo as a Moving Map. Thus - making the Zumo "only for Dummies".

There is no real conflict in making the Zumo perfect for both Dummies & Experts. Only thing needed is an "Advanced Setup" menu.

As a comparison: ABS on a GS is the safest solution for 95% of all riding. But for riding on loose gravel it MUST be possible for me to set "ABS=Off". Or else I'll buy another bike!

 

[ebbo]

Do Garmin have a stand at the NEC, because I don't remember seeing one before?

I have printed it off though and will take it with me tomorrow - just in case.

Too late maybe Taff, but other may want to know. Garmin have stand T187 in Hall 19, right next to BMW

 

[Cole]

If you think that Garmin 276C or Garmin 2820 are more "advanced" or "powerful" than the Zumo you are very wrong. Zumo is by far more powerful and that's where the problem begins. We, the more experienced GPS users, we indeed want the Zumo!

But at this moment Garmin has gone a little to far. By omitting a couple of critical setup alternatives (Recalculation=Off and Autozoom=Off) they efficently kill the possibilities to use the Zumo as a Moving Map. Thus - making the Zumo "only for Dummies".

Hejsan

Can you please keep this thread posted with developments on this topic... the ability to adjust settings manually. I am looking at getting a Zumo and was unaware of these limitations.

Have found the posts very interesting

 

[HMR]

Can you please keep this thread posted with developments on this topic...

OK. I'll go golfing in Portugal for a week now but will pick up the thread when I'm back. Don't expect too much from me. I have only second hand info.

 

[JDH]

I think I need to comment to this more in detail if you excuse me for doing so.

In most situations we are all Dummies. As a brain sugeon, fighter pilot, gourmet chef, etc, etc I'm the dummest of Dummies. But one should be able to survive without being an expert. Therefore cars, video recorders, elevators and GPS navigators should be designed for Dummies. Cars are, but video recorders are not. Garmin is putting a lot of resources into making GPS navigators for Dummies and that is good.

One very important issue in making tech gadgets easy to use is to take away all alternative settings, calibration, initiation, etc. That's why the maps should be preloaded. That's why more and more functions are "intelligent" or automatic.

If you think that Garmin 276C or Garmin 2820 are more "advanced" or "powerful" than the Zumo you are very wrong. Zumo is by far more powerful and that's where the problem begins. We, the more experienced GPS users, we indeed want the Zumo!

To make the very advanced Zumo possible to operate by the ordinary US biker Garmin must make the user interface as simple as possible and automate as many functions as possible.

But at this moment Garmin has gone a little to far. By omitting a couple of critical setup alternatives (Recalculation=Off and Autozoom=Off) they efficently kill the possibilities to use the Zumo as a Moving Map. Thus - making the Zumo "only for Dummies".

There is no real conflict in making the Zumo perfect for both Dummies & Experts. Only thing needed is an "Advanced Setup" menu.

As a comparison: ABS on a GS is the safest solution for 95% of all riding. But for riding on loose gravel it MUST be possible for me to set "ABS=Off". Or else I'll buy another bike!

Ok I concede, enjoy your golf I was pi**ed at the time I wrote that crock of sh*t anyway

 

[ebbo]

Latest questions answered by 'Chet' on the Zumo blog

Q: Chet, can you turn off automatic 'off route' recalculation and how much track log can the zumo store?

A: At this time, you cannot turn off the automatic "off route" recalculation. I am trying to find more information on this feature and I will post more about when I learn more. As for the track log, it is actually called the "Trip Log" in this unit and the zumo will store 10,000 Trip Log Points.

Q: How many via points can a route have?

A: The zumo will save up to 50 routes and each route can have up to 200 via points.

Q: Can a current trip be tracked and saved?

A: Yes. If you clear your Trip Log and start a trip, at the end of the trip you can then convert that Trip Log into a route and save it to the device.

Q: Do you have a date yet that the zumo 550 will start shipping?

A: The current time period for the zumo to start shipping is still middle 4th quarter. Also, the owners manual will appear for download online when the product begins shipping.

So, some good bits, some not so good, looks like I'd have to keep my mini notebook with me on trip if I had a Zumo, as the track log (trip log) is only 10,000. And as it stands you can't turn off ‘off route recalculate’
Just possibly they’re now in a blind panic re writing the unit software so it can be turned off, we’ll see.

But you can turn a track log (trip log) in to a route, so some will be happy with that

I think at the moment I'll keep the 276c

 

[Taff]

Too late maybe Taff, but other may want to know. Garmin have stand T187 in Hall 19, right next to BMW

Found the Garmin stand (difficult to miss it really) between the BMW and Suzuki stands. Full of good intentions, I did print the thread off and promptly left it in the wrong bag. I did ask one of the staff though about the Autozoom and he just said they were "looking into it".

I did have a quick play with the Zumos on display, and I think Mouse has a point, so for me anyway I'll stick with my 2610.

 

[GEOFFREY DEACON]

I am a bit confused at this point, on jargon etc, But does this mean that i will not?, be able to use the zumo as a rolling map, with No route put into it ??.
A feature I find very usefull !.

 

[Dale]

I am a bit confused at this point, on jargon etc, But does this mean that i will not?, be able to use the zumo as a rolling map, with No route put into it ??.
A feature I find very usefull !.

Geoffrey,

Dont get too fussed about the jargon ... the features that most of the guys are grumbling about (rightly so IMHO) are the ones that you would use in an off road situation and may not apply to you.

Bear in mind that no one has had one to play with at this stage, so most of the info is 2nd/3rd/4th hand and there seem to be lots of onflicting reports kicking around.

Wait till they have been released and then hear what the likes of Dutchman, HMR and PanEuropean have to say about the thing - after they have had them to play with. Also bear in mind that different folk have different uses for a GPS .... HMR is primarily concerned about off road use, Pan uses his mainly on a road & Dutchman sells the things (but seems to give very fair comment) ... their respective comments need to be seen in light of their primary use.

Dale

 

[ebbo]

I am a bit confused at this point, on jargon etc, But does this mean that i will not?, be able to use the zumo as a rolling map, with No route put into it ??.
A feature I find very usefull !.

Geoff, don’t worry about the Zumo, we're just picking the bones out of it. You’ll certainly be able to use it as a rolling map.

 

[Deleted account W]

.... HMR is primarily concerned about off road use, Pan uses his mainly on a road & Dutchman sells the things (but seems to give very fair comment) ... their respective comments need to be seen in light of their primary use.

Dale

HMR is talking about two issues that effect road use, nothing to do with off road

Auto zoom being on all the time. This means as you approach a junction the map automatically zooms in to the junction. Not good if you want to see a wider area of the map to decide if you want to take a different road.

Auto- recalculate. This means the feature that automatically recalculates your route if you go wrong can't be turned off. When it does this it will recalculate to the next waypoint using the shortest/fastest route. Not on the roads that you chose when you planed the route.

 

[Fanum]

We know that there are Garmin people who read this section......so what's being said here will be taken on board.

On the face of it, they haven't produced a unit that's of much use to many of us- it does indeed seem to be a dumbed down unit with some very important features missing, or at least not turned on.

Like others, I'm going to stick with my Quest until they bring out a unit that has the features I need- and that's certainly not the Zumo (yet)

If any of the Garmin techs see this, I hope they might consider registering to respond to us- I suspect they won't though because even if we say it won't happen, they know that the people who have a hard time getting in touch with them on the phone will just lay in to them if they pop up here.....a shame.

 

[shedracer]

HMR is talking about two issues that effect road use, nothing to do with off road

Auto zoom being on all the time. This means as you approach a junction the map automatically zooms in to the junction. Not good if you want to see a wider area of the map to decide if you want to take a different road.

Auto- recalculate. This means the feature that automatically recalculates your route if you go wrong can't be turned off. When it does this it will recalculate to the next waypoint using the shortest/fastest route. Not on the roads that you chose when you planed the route.

These are the very same functions I discussed with a member of the Garmin staff at the bike show yesterday. He said that they are currently not possible on the Zumo, but it would be possible to add them as an update if Garmin were to make them available. He recommended that it would be a good idea to e-mail Garmin and put your point over concerning these particular points. He said that if Garmin received enough contacts from the customers, they would almost certainly do something.

He did say that the Auto zoom is currently being looked at.

So the best thing to do is, get those e-mails off to Garmin, the more the merrier.

Concerning my own views on the Zumo, I really liked it. The menu setup is completely different to my 276c, so that would take a while to adjust to and it doesn't have the adjustability of the 276c, but i still liked it a lot. I ordered a Zumo 550 through Dutchman at Motorrad Concepts, a while ago at a great price. I'm looking forward to receiving it and starting a new learning curve with it.