GSA 1150 wont start

travelman · Nov 10, 2009

Hi Folks,

My GSA wont start. Its been building up to this for a few weeks now I think. This winter I find I have to use choke and open throttle to get it to start.

First starts are getting tricky. It sounds sluggish to turn over as if battery is low, but there's a new battery in there. To get it to fire up I have to open the throttle and keep it open when starting and keep the revs up for a minute or so before I can let off the throttle otherwise it will conk out.

Today it wont start at all. It turns over but cant fire up. If I apply choke I get a fast ratcheting sound. If I open throttle the same. When I leave both alone it just turns but wont start.

Spark plugs are just 6k miles old (all of them)
Battery is new
Fuel filter is only 6kmiles
Air Filter is new also

BMW recently put it on the computer so carbs and injection is balanced and hall sensor, they say, is fine. Although recently it conked out completely, all power died including the digital clock mid-ride. It did this twice which is why I had it in with BMW - they couldn't find a fault.

Any ideas why it wont start today?????????

roddy · Nov 10, 2009

might be worth looking at the starter do a search theres a good thread about stripping the unit down, they can get a bit clagged up with dirt, my mate had similar symptoms recently and it was a shagged starter that caused it

though this wouldn't cause the cutting out mid ride, that's worrying

robmack · Nov 10, 2009

I think i would agree with Roddy here, sounds like your starter.
I had similar symptoms last year before i replaced mine.
The front aluminium housing had broken on mine and was rattling around and being grated on the flywheel

travelman · Nov 10, 2009

Is it an expensive job?

roddy · Nov 10, 2009

have a look at this thread

http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207984&highlight=starter+motor

it is very easy to remove the starter as long as you some mechanical ability

sockpuppet · Nov 10, 2009

travelman said:
Is it an expensive job?

Second hand starter can be had for £80 ish from www.motorworks.co.uk

Its a easy job to bolt on and off, 5 mins at home or £10 at a garage.

travelman · Nov 10, 2009

If its the starter, how can I diagnose it being the starter.

Am I right in ruling out coils, fuel pump, fuel filter, sparks, coils and water in the tank by my reasoning below......

a. Recently I had it at BMW, they put it on the computer and all was well so that rules out electronics.

b. The fuel pump is activating on ignition.

c. BMW checked the alternator recently, it too is fine.

d. Battery is new

So alls left I can think of is

coils
Spark plugs
Starter
Fuel filter
fuel lines
possible water in the tank

if it was fuel lines, water in the tank or coils then it wouldn't be fine when it warms up after riding for a few minutes would it?

Stewart H · Nov 10, 2009

Theres a simple starter stripdown just down the page, it only took me half an hour to remove the starter and check it, the problem would be obvious :thumb2

Stewart

ciderman gs · Nov 10, 2009

could it be a duff lamda sensor or a leak on the intake tubes

roddy · Nov 10, 2009

travelman said:
If its the starter, how can I diagnose it being the starter. ?

take the starter out and look for obvious signs of damage, check the fly out spur (don't know proper name) moves easily and returns properly, wire it up without fitting and see if it spins healthly but be careful it'll be quite a kick when it spins up

have you read the other thread mentioned

travelman · Nov 10, 2009

Hi Roddy,

Yeah I read the link you posted about stripping and examining it, I'll have a go at it tomorrow. See what happens. I'm charging the battery tonight just to be sure there's not a battery drain somewhere, I don't think there is but just to rule it out.

I'll post what happens.

roddy · Nov 11, 2009

Had another thought about the cutting out, If I remember correctly there's a wire around the ignition barrel that can get damaged by a tie-wrap wrapped round the loom and this causes problems with power to the bike, it's a known problem again do a quick search

davegs · Nov 11, 2009

Ing switch

BMW do a spare bit of loom that runs from switch to under the tank, handy thing to carry as this is a known problem.
dave GS

Packer · Nov 11, 2009

I would also check all major electrical connections including solenoids etc. as the cutting out during operation suggests more than a simple starter issue.

Re-check the battery terminal connections. The wire terminations may be corroded. Loose terminal connections caused similar starting problems for me and resulted in the battery not charging properly. Nearly bought a new battery but a turn of a spanner solved the problem and the same battery is still going strong 5 years later.

Good luck!

travelman · Nov 11, 2009

Hi folks,

took apart the starter motor, it looks fine, its clean however there is some scoring and flattening on the armature. I have attached a pic. The rest seems okay. The only other slight niggle is that in mikes procedure the gear teeth under the oil catch plate seem a fraction more recessed in mine, but just a little, I imagine this would have no bearing.

The fly wheel teeth seem fine a little scored but no damage. The teeth on teh starter motor where it interacts with the flywheel seem fine, very dirty mind but fine. All the parts seem to move okay.

The scoring on the armature is the only thing that seems out of order.

I had the battery on charge over night. This morning I tried the bike with choke and it started. Then I turned it off. Tried it again and it wouldnt start, same problem. I imagine the first surge out of the battery was enough power to get it going.

Now the battery isnt a BMW battery nor an oddessy, its a battery from my local bike dealer a varta or some other make....this shouldnt make a difference should it?

See pics of armature below

Any ideas?

Packer · Nov 11, 2009

Varta has a very good name so unless it's faulty it won't be that. The supplier or an auto-electrician will be able to test it for you cheaply.

You're looking for bad connections in the wiring somewhere. See my post above.

Keith Chapman · Nov 11, 2009

The armature damage looks like it has been rubbing on loose magnets.

If your magnets are sound, has someone been in previously and re glued the magnets but did not replace a worn armature?

An armature rubbing on the magnets will give a laboured turn over.

travelman · Nov 11, 2009

Battery connections fine, terminal connections all tight, no wire corroding that I can see.

The cutting out while driving only happened twice ever, it was weird, both times a month apart I had taken a trip to dublin and it happened at the exact same spot - crossing the same traffic light junction at the exact same junction - thats the only time it has ever done that. So I wonder is that a seperate issue.

This morning it started on a full charge battery - when I then turned ignition off then on again it wouldn't start again - that suggests to me power delivery issue to the fly wheel so that could be either power delivery from battery to starter or within the starter i.e. power delivery from starter to flywheel.....

Thats what its got to be huh????

The only thing I can think that is different to the old is when the new battery went in the terminal connectors didn't match - a pin on my connectors a pin on the battery so I drilled a piece of metal to connect the two - but that was 3 months ago.......its been running since - so I cant imagine its that......

travelman · Nov 11, 2009

Hi Keith,

The rivets on the casing were in tact suggesting that no-one has been in before. But the magnets looked fine bit the armature is definately scored as you can see from rubbing against the magnets - could that be my problem????

Would that account for the one time startup this morning?

Maybe if they are rubbing it takes more power to get them to turn efficiently???

Stewart H · Nov 11, 2009

travelman said:
Hi Keith,

The rivets on the casing were in tact suggesting that no-one has been in before. But the magnets looked fine bit the armature is definately scored as you can see from rubbing against the magnets - could that be my problem????

Would that account for the one time startup this morning?

Maybe if they are rubbing it takes more power to get them to turn efficiently???

So the magnets are securely bonded to the can?
Stewart

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