First time pillion

Jed

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I know i will get some stick about this but ....... :comfort

Saw the thread about skidlid sale in BM Oxford and took my 13yr old son to get him kitted out. :thumb2

Intention was to take him on the back in the summer - due to me only started riding in Nov. :rob

Unsurprising he's now hassling me to take him out. :blast

Any advise on taking pillions for the first time would be greatly appreciated or should i tell him tough he's got to wait until i get atleast 6mths under my belt.
 
Only you can answer that :thumb

the GS is pretty good for two up, the biggest thing I find a pillion affects is low speed trundling, so if your a bit tippy at times you increase the risk of toppling over.

Once rolling it ain't too much different to riding one up, just leave a bit more room / stopping distance and keep it smooth.

I am sure wiser men will be along shortly to add to that.
 
hi jed what kind of milage have you covered since nov 2010 , and have you had any experience of riding before passing your test ie ~ motor x bikes or anything ? :) and do you feel confident riding it yourself before you take a pillion :thumb2
 
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i've done 1200 miles - ridden as much as i can taking into account was snowed in for a week, now commuting to work every day 50miles round trip - bit of country lanes then motorway.
never ridden bikes before i did DAS. bought the bike on the way home from test centre. dropped it once in the first week - standstill at a junction :blast
feel a lot more solid now - done loads of slow control practice in the supermarket carpark sunday mornings.
 
(I am no wiser but ....!)

Smoothness is key. When you're on your own, you may not even realise you're snapping open the throttle or snapping it shut and braking. Do that with a pillion and they'll be hanging on to your jacket trying not to fall off the back, or head butting you as you throttle off.

So smoooothly open the gas as you rocket away, as you come into that junction / queue of traffic / sharp bend that requires less speed, smoooothly loose your speed. Riding quickly with a pillion is not the issue, it's how you get up to speed and back again.

Having said all that ... your pillion may very well say, I want a fair ground ride, I want you to do 0-60 in four seconds .. !!!

If you've got one, a top box will undoubtedly give any pillion that added physical and mental security. No top box and a hand full of throttle, and they'll certainly feel like they're going to fall off the back.

It should be, that your pillion can sit with hands on knees and not feel the need to hold the grab bars.

We usually brake, sort of 75/25 front/ back. Now you have a pillion, you have much more weight over your rear wheel, so you can redistribute your braking, and use more rear. This will lessen the diving effect of your bike (yeah yeah yeah telelever and all that ...) and will stop them slamming into the back of you.

Take control of them getting on and off. If they jump on and you're still fiddling with the cuff of your jacket, you'll both end up on the floor.

Pep talk your pillion if it's their first time too. 'I want you to sit like a sack of potatoes - If the bike leans, you lean with the bike, but don't anticipate the corner coming up and start leaning yourself - you sit perfectly still and in-line with the bike ..' :thumb
 
I would stick with the option of getting some time under your belt first especially as its your kid and not an adult.

All my kids have had to wait till they were 13 before pillion as they are then old enough to comprehend the consequences of moving about when they are not supposed to.

For a novice pillion the GS is ideal especially with a top box fitted as they cant then topple over the back. A "love handles" belt will also help for the confidence of the pillion to hold on. My 14 year old lad holds onto the side straps on my Rukka jacket.

Its all about smoothness and braking earlier, accelerating gentler and smoothing things out............think wet weather solo riding when you have a novice pillion.

I started my missus gently on the back of a 636 Kawasaki and after about 3 trips she was superb and a complete natural to the degree we could ride as a pair in fast company and stay with solo 1000's :) ..............she now almost falls asleep on the GS as its soooooo much more relaxed and comfy even when i have got a hurry on :augie
 
cheer guys.
think i'm going wait for a few more miles under my belt. I also read somewhere the BM training do days on this so might be a nice weekend away with the boy.
 
giles lamb;Pep talk your pillion if it's their first time too. 'I want you to sit like a sack of potatoes - If the bike leans said:
with the bike[/I], but don't anticipate the corner coming up and start leaning yourself - you sit perfectly still and in-line with the bike ..' :thumb

Excellent and very important advice to any pillion :thumb2
 
Hi Jed, when you're ready, I'd recommend a bit more slow-speed practice + passenger before you do 2-up traffic filtering. The higher centre of gravity usually requires a bit more handlebar waggling at walking pace until you get it dialled in.

Also echoing the golden rule that the passenger never climbs aboard until you let them know you're ready.
 
SWMBO was a biking "virgin" until she met me a couple of years ago.

I had a K1200S at the time, so she found the acceleration and braking mindboggling after her 1.4 Fiesta, even when accelerating/braking gently. She also took a while to consistantly lean the right way in bends, but soon got the hang of it.

A top box, Triboseat, intercom and "pillion pal" belt made her feel much more secure :thumb2 It did the trick as she's biking mad now and I never get to ride solo anymore
 
Also echoing the golden rule that the passenger never climbs aboard until you let them know you're ready.

Amen to that!

My lad has been pillion with me since he was eight. The other important rule is "No wriggling" - boys seem to be unable to sit still.

Pillion pal handles are also a good investment.
 
I managed about a year before having a pillion on the back.. and once on we went to Scotland. I have only managed to get her off the back as she is now learning herself.. anyway

First time they get on see if it can be somewhere with lots of space and no traffic, I went over to the local trading estate on a saturday morning (SWMBO drove over) was empty and we just got used to going and doing junctions, slow speed work etc etc, all the while knowing that if it got too much we were 2 mins walk from her car.

The top box idea is very worth noting. If I don't have it on the mrs ends up all tense and holds me far far too tight, with it on she is happy to just sit there..

Intercoms I find do help, mostly just for the are you ok? Do you want to stop? I've going for an overtake? etc etc

I find it helps if I have the front brake on when SWMBO gets on, stops the bike rolling forwards/backwards.
 
Hope some of this helps. Nothing is "Black and White". Consider this a bunch of tools that you use to fit you and your riding, just bring out the tool that works for you. Some of this is aimed at the pillion as well. To be used in conjunction with your existing training and experience. Consider additional tuition (IAM or Rospa). Avoid temptation to impress/show off and go easy:

Clonking Helmets.

When you ride with a pillion, you will notice that sometimes, the pillion's helmet collides with your helmet with a "cloink".
You shouldn't blame the pillion rider for that: see it as a sign that your gear shifting should be a bit smoother.
One of the nice side-effects of riding with a pillion is that you can practice switching gears in a perfect way, because you get immediate feedback when you do'nt succeed.

Switching gears *fast*

The tric to switching gears without a sudden change of speed (that's why those helmets cloink against each other) is that you should switch gears as *fast* as possible. The sequence of actions is:
Close the throttle a litle bit, and almost at the same time
Pull the clutch (you don't have to pull it completely), and immediately
Switch gears, and immediately
Loosen the clutch and set the throttle in its original state.
PracticeIt is better to practise changing gears smoothly without a pillion: a pillion enhances the braking effect of pulling the clutch.
And when you ride with a pillion, you can test how well you perform.

Braking

Braking hard does not feel very comfortable for the pillion. The pillion will be pushed against you very hard.
Therefore, you should try to brake as little as possible, and if you have to, start braking as soon as possible: then you can brake very lightly.

The throttle

Exactly the same is true for opening the throttle: when you accelerate hard, your pillion will feel as if he or she will fall from the rear of the motorcycle. The pillion should hold the motorcycle rider tightly, but even then, rapid acceleration in most cases will not be positive for the pleasure of the pillion.


Looking ahead

This boils down to the advice that you look far ahead, even more than you are used to do when riding on your own. When you do that, you are able to foresee that you will have to brake long before you need to. And you will have to enhance your speed a bit more gradually than you are used to.
SmoothEspecially when you have a pillion who never has been on the back of a motorcycle before, it is important to be as smooth as possible.
An often heard advice for riding in slippery conditions, is to ride as if you would ride with a pillion, but the same applies the other way around: ride as if the tarmac is slippery.
That means: take corners with one set speed, instead of braking first and accelerate out of the corner. Try to loose speed by using the engine instead of using the brakes. And accelerate very slowly.
You will notice that your pillion will not have problems with leaning into a curve when you round the corner smoothly. When you ride stop and go style, your pillion will almost certainly feel uncomfortable when leaning in.

The footpeg is not a stirrup

Some spillion riders mount a motorcycle like they would mount a horse. As if the footpeg is a stirrup iron: they first put their left foot on the left peg, stand on that peg with their full weight, and then swing their right leg over the buddy, and come to a sit.
It is difficult for the rider in front to keep the motorcycle upright. Especially when the motorcycle is high, the legs of the motorcycle rider are short, or when the motorcycle is heavy, it is very difficult not to let the motorcycle fall to the left side.

Swing your leg

So you keep your left foot on the ground, swing your right leg over the motorcycle, and then shift upward until you sit on the buddy.

Impossible?

If mounting the motorcycle is impossible for you that way, for instance because the motorcycle and its luggage are too high for your right leg, make sure that the rider in front knows how you are planning to climb onto the bike. Then he or she is able to anticipate the extra weight on the left side.

How to sit

The more to the back of the bike you sit, the more your weight will disturb the motorcycle in corners.
So it is better not to lean backwards, but to sit close to the rider in front.

How to fasten yourself

You can grab the coat of the rider in front, or, if available, the grab rails of the motorcycle.
The advantage of grabbing the coat of the rider, is that you almost automatically will move along.

Corners

When the motorcycle leans into a corner, you should move along with the rider in front. That is: you don't try to lean in the opposite way as the motorcycle! Instead, you go along with the bike.
When you lean *more* than the bike, the bike will steer more into the corner than the rider in front expects. So just move along with the rider.
When you look actively to the road in front (as if it's you who is the rider), it is good practise to keep your head at the inside-side of the head of the rider in front, in every corner. When you do that, you automatically lean with the motorcycle.
So, in a corner to the left you have your head to the left of the rider in front, and in corners to the right at the right-side.

Riding slow

At slow speed, a motorcycle looses its balance easier. Your task is not to make sudden movements, for instance while lane splitting.

Feet on the pegs

When the rider stops, for a red light for instance, keep your feet on the pegs. It will be easier for the rider to keep the motorcycle in balance.

Getting off

When you get off the bike, wait until the rider says you may. Get off by sliding to the left, and
ImportantRealise that you are vulnerable on the back of a motorcycle, often even more than the motorcycle rider him- or herself. The difference is that your fate is in the hands of somebody else.
 
All of the advice I believe has already been Given .

Pep Talks : I go as far as to advise them if we are going down the road (apart from the bike) to attempt to get as far away from the bike as possible, to how to lean , and not wriggle etc !!!

Climbing Aboard : Amen to the pegs aren't Stirrups ...... (Don't ask how Wife and I know this !!!) :D

Pillion Pal / Intercom / topbox : are all great confidence boosters for both the pillion and rider.

Stop : Also I always stop within 10 minutes of someones first pillion ride , off bike , helmets off , and a chat about are they happy with speed , warm , comfortable etc .... No point not stopping until after an hour to discover Pillion wanted you to go faster/slower/not over take as much ....

Smooth : The smoother you are , the better for both of you , this includes maintaining corner lines , braking , acceleration , and warning pillions of sudden acceleration if overtaking

HTH

:thumb
 
All advice given already............ first time for wife or my sons, told them to put arms around me and "feel" the ride - corners etc. As they began to understand and get confidence - they relax and moved back. Now no problem - even seriously technical offroad stuff, sand, gravel - wifey a dream on the back and I just don't know she's there! :thumb
 
cheer guys.
think i'm going wait for a few more miles under my belt. I also read somewhere the BM training do days on this so might be a nice weekend away with the boy.

probably the best reply to this thread when all said and done.

If you aren't confident about your riding skills you really shouldn't be taking anyone - let alone a minor - on the back.

You sound as if you are fairly mature in your outlook and this is often reflected in how you ride. I would recommend doing IAM or RoSPA before putting your son on the back. Straight off the DAS its a simple progression, will transform your riding, your safety and your confidence.

Instruction is practically free ( its a few quid to join and you pay your tutors fuel costs ).

The advice about smoothness, top boxes, grab handles, getting on and off etc is all useful and true, but acquiring a framework from which you can reference this advice is important.

Good luck.
 
Ditto as above with the advanced stuff. TVAM are your local IAM Group & there are currently quite a few Observers waiting for associates. PM if you want more info.

MAy also be worth kitting the helmets out with an intercom.

Baz
 
All many thanks for comments/advise. All taken onboard. Already bought pillion pal (shopoholick in me).
PM sent to Baz for TV IAM details, will get intercom in helmets (probably go for the BM one if think) and wait until after IAM and a few more months.
thanks again - last thing i want is to uck it up and put him off which would then put the wife off. :thumb2
 
I can't help wondering if those of you who are not commed up Do you have some sort of sign to mean something that indicates an imminent action like a splap on the leg or similar to mean hang on etc :nenau
 
I can't help wondering if those of you who are not commed up Do you have some sort of sign to mean something that indicates an imminent action like a splap on the leg or similar to mean hang on etc :nenau

I told my lad (he's 12 now) - prob 10 at the time, that as we were going on the motorway if he wanted me to come off at the next junction or if there was a real problem to bang me on the right shoulder. I would assess and decide what to do.

A while down the M4 I gets a bang on my shoulder - he says he feels sick (you know whats coming, right ?) I say OK we'll pull in at the next services - they were about 10 miles off.

Couple of miles later and I get pain in the right shoulder - look back and his visor is covered in puke :D he hadn't even thought to lift it before chucking up :blast

Oh how I larfed :augie:comfort

Pulled over and got him over the armco - thank goodness the last thing I packed was a big pack of wet wipes :thumb2
 


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