Loads of Waypoints??

This may be a setting thing but if I upload a route to my Nav V I get lots of waypoints and as part of the loading of the route I get asked which waypoint I want to visit first - all this is fine no problem. BUT if I stop half way round the route and take the Sat Nav out of the cradle I then interupt the route and it asks me the same again - starting with waypoints that were at the beginning of the route - This is no major problem in the UK but while I was in Germany - because the waypoints are often Road names - i couldnt decipher where on the route I was. if you arrange the correct waypoint to go to next the route will continue but if you get it wrong the route tries to start all over again?

Sounds odd but the new Nav V is more clever than it needs to be if you interupted my old 660 then it just picked up where it left off.

incidently it doesnt happen if you leave the Nav V in its cradle which is not allways safe to do if the bike is out of sight when you stop for lunch etc.

Anyone else seen this?

Rik

Our car device does this and appears to have the same navigation software as the Nav V. We get around it by simply pressing the map when we re start after switching off. This picks up the route as on a 660. Why it does not just do that anyway only Garmin can answer and is another reason I will stick with my older device for as long as possible.

John

Thanks for the reply John - will try that next time - the Nav V has some lovely features but the simple things seem to have been complicated.

Rik

Stop creating waypoints.

Start creating routing nodes instead. Problem solved.

Put the word 'nodes' into the site's advanced search function. All is revealed.

Hi Wapping thats the problem really - maybe I didnt explain it too well - the waypoints that I "actually want" are not a probelm because I can tell if I have visited them or not and where the next one is - it is the "nodes" that is the issue - on the Nav V it shows in the waypoint list as a road name - when abroad these dont always help because we would know a road as the Bxxx or Axxx but in the waypoint list the node would show as a street name.

Problem showed when we had 3 units all with the same route a 660 and 2 x Nav V's the one of the Nav V's showed some the nodes but not the waypoints (which must have been the setting on the Mapping software - incidently this software was the master map and was the BaseCamp system the route was generated on) My Nav V showed all the nodes and the waypoints. the 660 just showed the route as we would expect. Both Nav V's lost the position of the route when they were disconnected from the cradles at lunch time.

I will try Johns suggestion above by ignoring the "which waypoint next" screen (not sure if I can do this and cant test because i am currently at work) and go straight to map screen and see if that works.

Ta

Rik

Shaping nodes should not appear on the Nav V's list at all.

If I create a 350 mile route from A to E, via B, C and E, then convert B, C and D to shaping nodes, they will not apear on the list nor will they be announced. All I will get is one simple message on the 'Go' screen:

Do I want to go to A, the start point (logically no) or to E, the end point (logically yes). I select E and away I go.... No mention at all of B, C or D.

Wapping said:

Shaping nodes should not appear on the Nav V's list at all.

If I create a 350 mile route from A to E, via B, C and E, then convert B, C and D to shaping nodes, they will not apear on the list nor will they be announced. All I will get is one simple message on the 'Go' screen:

Do I want to go to A, the start point (logically no) or to E, the end point (logically yes). I select E and away I go.... No mention at all of B, C or D.

Click to expand...

Does the unit then follow the route you created, or does it calculate a new route to E? Is this behaviour governed by whether you have auto recalculation switched on or off?

Also, say you have deviated a mile or so from your planned route to look for a restaurant of some such, and you then wish to rejoin your planned route, are the answers to the first question the same?

Wapping said:

Stop creating waypoints.

Start creating routing nodes instead. Problem solved.

Put the word 'nodes' into the site's advanced search function. All is revealed.

Click to expand...

They do it without waypoints too! I have created routes to test this and the latest devices still do it.

John

I have the auto recalculate turned off - so if I deviate from the route i can see the pink line away from my route but only starts navigating when I once again join the pink line.

It is hard to say about the "shaping nodes" because the route was one someone else created - but the creator did not put any other waypoints other than start and finish in to create the route but again there were loads of via points shown in the waypoints list of the Nav V.

it might be easier to take some screenshots or photos when I get back at the weekend.

OK, Riktus.

Let's start at the beginning.

You have received a route from a third party, with apparently just two waypoints, one at the start and one at the end. What software was used to create this route, or what file format it was received in by you is unknown.

In between these two waypoints there were no other points; in other words the fellow had just asked his software to create a route from A to B, accepting whatever route his software pumped out. In short, he did not pull the route around to direct it down certain roads. Is that correct?

He then sent this simple A to B, one single line, route to you and you somehow loaded it onto your Nav V device. When loaded and run on the device, somehow lots of waypoints have been created between A and B, when none were there before. Is that correct?

So, your question is where did they come from? The answer is... I don't know.... But I can have a reasonable guess.

When the fellow created his route from A to B. He DID put some viapoints (shaping nodes) in to bend the route along certain 'must do' roads but they do not show up on your PC. What they do do though is show up on your Nav V but not on an old 660. What I think is happening is in the conversion between your computer and your Nav V (probably when the device imports the route) innocent and invisible viapoints (shaping nodes) are converted into waypoints, with exactly the outcome you are experiencing. You can tell if this happened by doing the following:

Turn on your Nav V

Tap Apps

Tap Trip Planner

Tap the Spanidh route

Do not tap Go!

In the centre of the screen there will be a list. It will start with a green flagged 'start point' and end with a chequered flag 'end point'. Inbetween there may well be lots of points in a long list. What symbol is against them? It should be a simple blue circle with a blue north south vertical line running through it. These are innocent viapoints, unannounced and ignored by the device, used by it only to calculate a route. What symbol do you see? A blue dot or a yellow flag?

Now, tap on the map button. The route should display in magenta, A to B, green flag at the start, chequered flag at the end. Inbetween these two flags there should be nothing more than simple blue dots, each at the same point as those described above. What do you see? Do you see blue dots or yellow flags?

Now, tap the return arrow.

Do not tap the Go! button.

On the upper left corner you will see three parallel lines. Tap it. You are now in the edit screen.

Tap 'Edit destinations'

You should now see the same list, green flag first, chequered flag at the end and the same list of points each with its little blue circle. What do you see? Blue dots or yellow flags?

Do you see a green flag and then lots of orange flags? If so, great... It's not good news but we have found the problem. These are waypoints, innocent via points that have been converted somewhere in the chain described above.

Tap one of the orange flags... You should get a message 'Duration and arrival times will be removed. Change to shaping point' Tap Yes.

The orange flag will change to a blue circle (see above).

Repeat as necessary. One at a time, you can't do multiple changes on your device.

Tap, Save. The device will do a recalculation. Don't worry.

Now return to your map. You should have just the green flag, the chequered flag and blue dots inbetween. Your problems are all over.

Hope this helps. Report back with news.

Richard







PS Of course if he used Tyre / Googlemaps to create his route and then converted it into some other format before sending it to you, then all sorts of things might have happened betwixt and between.

The Grey One said:

They do it without waypoints too! I have created routes to test this and the latest devices still do it.

John

Click to expand...

Yes, of course it will do it with deliberately created waypoints. You have deliberately created points on a route that you have told the dumb device you MUST pass through. So it will do its very best to route you through them until you tell it to stop or to skip the waypoint.

The Nav V is clever (for a dumb device) in that it works out that bikers might run short of time, so they might want to miss out one or more of their waypoints, going directly to one lower down the list. They can do this easily (it used to be quite hard) by tapping on the point in the list. The device will take them directly to that point, using roads dictated by the preferences setting. If our fictional biker wants to get there quickly but had set their preferences to avoid motorways ( as they despise them even more than they despise Moslems and foreign food) they will of course shake their fist in frustration at the (stupid) device's insistence of routing them down wiggly roads and goat tracks.

Of course it helps if the (clever) biker knows where each of the points are in relation to where he is at any given point, or he's up a gum tree and left guessing. But that was down to his initial planning, the care he took on selecting points, how he perhaps re-named them and a host of other factors too lengthy to list.

Richard (Wapping)

more info for you - Correct that I am receiving the route as a .gdb file format made in BASEMCAMP with the same version with 2 points "Start" and "End" point - in the file that i looked at last night there were actually 3 points because there was a lunch stop arranged in the route too. The route was pulled around to a suit specific roads that we wanted to ride.

When I pull the route up as a list I see Start and Finish as you describe and then see yellow flags - these I assume are where the route was "dragged" to.

When I then pull up the Map - I see the route in Magenta and then Orange flags (I say orange because they dont seem yellow like the ones in the previous list)

Unfortunately the rest I will have to try when i get back home tonight - however I feel you have hit the nail on the head and have offered me a solution that I can work with - I will try the edit and report back.

This does go back to my first comment that i feel it may be my inexperience with Basecamp and probably have a setting or a viewing setting not quite right - I will experiment and see if I can import the rout into my Basecamp and then into my Nav V in the same way it was done on the original Map.

Thanks so far.

Rik

Working in Basecamp you should be able to reduce the announced routing nodes (these are what the additional flags are, as Wapping pointed out these have been converted to way-points at some point in the export/import process) to non announced nodes.

These instructions are for a PC though should be broadly similar on a Mac:

• Double click the route itself or the route in list in the left pane
• The route dialogue should open in a separate window displaying all points in the route
• You can select each point individually and right click to see some options
• One of these options is either "Alert on arrival" or "Don't alert on arrival"
• Selecting the latter effectively converts the way-point into a routing node (shaping point)

• You can select multiple points by selecting the first you want to convert, holding down the Shift key and selecting the last
• You can now right click this group and select from the above two 'alert' options, this will effect all points selected
• You can either do this for each group between points you want to retain as announced or do the entire route, except start and end, and then go back and revert the few you want as way-points to "Alert on arrival" individually.

You then export this route to your GPS.

Basecamp is somewhat daunting at first but persistence really does reap rewards. It's Basecamp and it's predecessor MapSource that really sets Garmin devices apart from and above the likes of TomTom.

Thanks Bumpkin - I will try this and see how I get on I think part of the problem is the setting in my BaseCamp and the ifference between the route being written on a PC unit and I actually use a Mac - the change happens on the import so it could be the difference between the 2 systems.

Will trial it if I get chance tonight and then report back - in case it helps others having a simialr issue.

Thanks
Rik

I think that's it cracked, excellent news.

Bods are prone to see the worst in the latest devices' ability to do all sorts of quite handy things, like create automatic waypoints from simple routing nodes or points. Whilst I dislike pure Waypoints (points you MUST pass through) with the new Nav V and the 590 they have become more useful, if used properly.

An example would be on a theoretical 300 mile day ride down country roads, from A to D via B, C and D which are three pre-agreed stops enroute. You could:

Ask the software to give you its suggested route from A to E.

Pull the route (via unannounced shaping nodes) to force the magenta line down certain roads between A and E. These will NOT appear on the device's list, will NOT appear as orange flags. They are just little blue innocent breadcrumbs.

You could insert three Waypoints (B, C and D) for a coffee, lunch and afternoon tea stop. These would be announced, appear on the device's route list and show as little orange flags on the map. To aid recognition you could give them your own personal name for each, something like 'Awaome pizza' will do.

Using BaseCamp (or the device) you could insert your departure time against point A. The software will automatically give you the estiamated arrival times at B, C, D and E. The question I am most often asked on Wanders is 'How far / when is the next stop', so bods do want to know.

You could then get really advanced and pre-set times for each stop, say 30 minutes at B and D and 90 minutes at C for lunch. The device will adjust its journey times accordingly.

Last but not least, it would give someone an easy chance to cut straight to C to join you for lunch. I sometimes get bods who join us enroute. They would just tap, take me to C from the list and BINGO!

For a dumb device it's getting remarkably clever; marry it to the increasingly powerful tools available in BaseCamp and it's remarkable what it can do. As the OP is learning, the best way to find out what it can do (why and how) is to use it for a real purpose, not just muck about and lose your temper at the first hiccough.

Quite right Wapping
I like the Nav V layout and the screen look is far superior to the 660 that I had (still have). I have had several issues - to the point where I even use it with my old 660 cradle because the Bluetooth is not good enough for uninterupted use with Autocom system. I am determined to make it work and actually get on quite well with BaseCamp. I just need to make sure compatibility between the supplied maps and my system are in sync.

Regards
Rik

I've learnt so much from following this thread.

Thanks guys

Bit of an update.

Loaded a map created by someone else and changed a proportion of the route to see if there was a difference between parts I had changed and that which had been imported. I also mapped a small route from home to the start point of the route where i was meeting a few friends. The first route I changed manually on the Nav V by editing each line of the list of points (I had purposely used more shaping points than usual) these were set to make sure they were the correct symbol and to make sure they were unannounced.

The second route which was imported to BaseCamp and also a few changes added - this was edited on basecamp and all the shaping points edited in one go as Bumpkin suggested to make sure they were unannounced - I also made sure they were all shaping nodes except the 3 that we wanted for Waypoint scheduled stops. I also took the time to add the times to the set off time with stop off / rest times roughly the right duration to see if this function was accurate.

All went well - on both routes I stops half way round - took the Nav V out of the cradle and then rplaced it after full shut down and reboot - no problems with routing - the kit performed faultlessly - the only announcement of via points or waypoints was the ones I had left as true waypoints (orange flags) and the times were close enough to be useful feature for future use.

All in all very good - am very grateful to the contributors to this thread that took the time to help me out and give me advice - many thanks

Rik

Hoorah! It works exactly as it should.

Nodes

Cant find the advance search for the elusive nodes Wapping , any better instructions..
Thanks
Techno numpty