Basecamp, Waypoints, Via points etc.

Hi all, hope someone an give me some advice. Basecamp isn't very intuitive but it seems quite powerful so am persevering.

I have been planning all my routes for a forthcoming trip to Spain, via ferry to Santander and then along the Pyrenees to the Costa Brava.

A couple of questions that I cannot find straightforward answers to. I have been planning my routes mainly using waypoints, placing them at regular intervals.

These waypoints then appear as favourites in my Nav V. Is there anyway to stop them appearing as favourites? They get a waypoint flag and a favourite indicator on the Nav V.

What is the difference between a waypoint and a shaping point? I can drag the route in Basecamp to make it go where I want and this creates a 'dotted' location in the route list, but it then appears as a different coloured flag (to the standard waypoint) on the Nav V.

It also appears that I can tell Basecamp not to announce the waypoint. If that is the case, this then stays as a flag in the Basecamp route list, but then appears as a dotted point on the list of via points on the Nav V.

So a 'dot' in Basecamp = a flag on the Nav V.
An unannounced flag in Basecamp = a dot on the Nav V.

Confusing, is there any way in which they are treated differently by the Nav V?

Also, any tips in matching routing profiles and routes between Basecamp and the Nav V? I am concerned about going off the chosen route on the actual road and it not rerouting as I want.

Many thanks



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Question: Are you using a PC or a Mac?

If it's PC someone will be along to help you.

What is the difference between a waypoint and a shaping point, shaping points dont announce, but you can make them if you so wish,

These waypoints then appear as favourites in my Nav V. Is there anyway to stop them appearing as favourites. use shaping points instead.

Really you only need waypoints at places you plan to stop at, like your destination or a town/or place you may like to visit on route, and then use shaping point for the rest of your route. and its always best to rename your waypoints to something you will recognise or remember, that way you will have them saved in favourites for future reference.

Routing profile i use when making a route is all of them deselected apart from unmade road, this works for me as i tend to plan routes using mapsource or basecamp. if planing addhoc i just set the preference on the nav to suit how i want to travel ie no motorways or motorways deselected. hope this helps.

Can you not alter the icon in basecamp to suit.

Have a look here
http://www.wham-motorcycling.org/garmin-help/
to understand more about waypoints, viapoints and shaping points. My advice is to use a minimal number of waypoints - probably only the start and end of your day's ride. Let Basecamp plot a route between these two points then drag n drop that route onto the roads you want to ride.

Thanks all.
There is also an option to insert a "routing point" if you right click on a route. Is that a shaping point? It's a bit confusing, just don't want to mess it up when I'm on the road!

There also seems to be two different types of shaping point, some that appear in the list as waypoints (if you tell Basecamp not to alert on arrival) and some that are just dots. What's the difference?

When I drag a route around, is that creating a shaping point that the Nav 5 will then have to go via?

I'm using a Mac.

Thanks all.


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Also, I have experimented with my route from home in the Midlands to Portsmouth.
As I was just planning to get to Portsmouth ASAP I let Basecamp do the route itself without any via points on specific roads, but have inserted some to see what happens in the transfer to Nav V.

My route has the following
Green flag - home : appears on device route listing the same
Blue flag waypoint - A34 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot with distance and time to arrival before it.
Black dot - A34 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot
Black dot - another point on the A34 : appears as a waypoint with a flag on route listing giving the option to set arrival time.
Blue flag waypoint - M27 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot with distance and arrival time before it.
Portsmouth Ferry Port.: appears on device with chequered flag.

Hope that all makes sense. Would appreciate some help with the logic and what would happen if I deviate from the route at various points.

just use the Motogoloco site...its much easier than having to fuck around with the Basecamp Software that was clearly designed by a redundant Saturn V Rocket scientist...

Just my opinion of course....

Does the Motogoloco site work well when transfered to the Nav V? Are the above issues not also replicated?
I can imagine that despite the software used to plot a route the outcome will be the same when transfered to the Nav V.

Decompressing said:

just use the Motogoloco site...its much easier than having to fuck around with the Basecamp Software that was clearly designed by a redundant Saturn V Rocket scientist...

Just my opinion of course....

Click to expand...

if you deviate from the route, as i can see it you have 3 options to get back on to the route . your options to get back to the route would be 1 to pick your nearest waypoint on the route that would be listed in your favourites and navigate to that point using the on board preferences and then carry on the route, or option 2 just look at the nav and head for your highlighted route, zooming out if you needed to, or select a point on your route tap it and select navigate to it, you could also just select the final destination and the nav will take you there again using its stored preferences that you will have chosen. hope this helps.

you can use a multitude of different pieces of software to plot and plan routes they all will give good results, some maybe better than others, its all down to personal choice, i would stick with what suits you and just go with it and get used to using it with your unit. there is no one do it all piece of software, certain software will be faster, slower, a better interface, to simple, to difficult and a whole raft of other faults or positives. Just look at the debate there is between basecamp and mapsource, thats without bringing anything else to the table.

Becksy, you are mixing several questions together into one or more posts. The good news is that you are near enough doing everything right, using BaseCamp which integrates really well with a Mac and with a whole host of Garmin devices, especially the latest variants.

I need to turn on my Mac to help you so wait a bit....

vRSG60 said:

Does the Motogoloco site work well when transfered to the Nav V? Are the above issues not also replicated?
I can imagine that despite the software used to plot a route the outcome will be the same when transfered to the Nav V.

Click to expand...

No, it works extremely well....its very simple to design a route, alter it, make the route take in the places YOU want and then save / transfer it.....and yes, I use a Navigator V....works perfectly

Right here goes...

There are lots of ways to create a route in BaseCamp on a Mac. You have done OK so far in that:

Becksy said:

My (home to Portsmouth) route has the following

Green flag - home : appears on device route listing the same

Portsmouth Ferry Port.: appears on device with chequered flag.

Click to expand...

That's good, as that is exactly what you should always have. Hoorah! We have take off!

Then you went on to pull the the Mac / BaseCamp generated route around, to route you down specific roads....

Becksy said:

,,,,,,, but have inserted some to see what happens....


Blue flag waypoint - A34 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot with distance and time to arrival before it.
Black dot - A34 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot
Black dot - another point on the A34 : appears as a waypoint with a flag on route listing giving the option to set arrival time.
Blue flag waypoint - M27 (won't alert) : appears on device route listing as a blue dot with distance and arrival time before it. .

Click to expand...

Just for a moment, forget about how they appear on your Mac screen or on your Nav V, just concentrate on how you pull the route about. Again, there are several ways to do this but let's start with an easy one:

Highlight the generated route, so that it appears as a bold magenta line on your Mac's screen.

Click on the Map Tools arrow

Click on the highlighted route. A black line will appear between your start and end points. Drag this line onto the road you want to take. in your case it's the A34 to start with. Release the mouse button. The Mac created route will now move.

Repeat again. You'll notice that the black line now only appears between either your start or end points and the intermediate shaping point point on the A34 you have just created. Now drag the route to the point on the A34 you chose. Now do the same again to the M27. Take a bit of care and you'll very soon work out how to do this smoothly and efficiently; there's a bit of a knack to it but it's by no means difficult.

Happy? Great, nearly there.

Now, right click on the route in the lefthand column of your screen, headed 'On MY Computer'

Click on 'Get Info'

A dialogue box will appear, listing your start point, end point and however many shaping points you created using the Map Tool arrow device. Got that? Great, let's press on as we are nearly done...

You can really start to get advanced in this box, creating arrival and departure times, dates, stop overs, the route's magenta colour, the route's composition (car, walking, heroic adventure motorcycling etc) adding or remove points and all sorts of other good things... but let's not go there...

Left click on the first point, in your example this is Home. The row will go blue. It does? Brilliant, that's what I hoped it would do.

Push Command A. This turns the complete list blue.

Right click anywhere in the blue area. Another dialogue box appears. Click on 'Don't alert on arrival. Shaping point'. Done that? Great all the points except your start point (home) and your end point (the port) are now shaping points. When you send the route to your Nav V, the device's own software will pick these points up and display them just as little blue dots. The start point will still have a green flag and the end point a chequered flag. It does? Fantastic, you have just created a route in BaseCamp on a Mac and sent it to your Nav V. It will work, trust me. What's more, you have just managed to do something many people believe to be impossible "As BaseCamp is shite, mate". You can make your own mind up on this later but for now you are swinging through the trees, whilst others drag their knuckles on the ground and grunt.


Now..... Let's have a bit of fun....

Go back to 'Get Info' and turn the whole list blue again, just like you did last time. Right click in the blue area and turn all the points back into announced points. Done that? Send the route to your device, it might help to re-name it, so you can tell which is which. That being said, the software might re-name it automatically on transfer, it matters not. Either way, the blue dots should all now be yellow flagged waypoints. The way shaping points and waypoints work differ but that is something else entirely. There are lots of posts and threads on the way each work; some of them are even quite good.

Now, go back to 'Get info' but this time right click on just one of the intermediate waypoints you created in the stage above. Turn that one point into an unannounced shaping point.

Send the route to your device. You should now see: Green flag, home. Chequered flag at the port. Yellow flags for all the announced waypoints and one blue spot. That is the single unannounced shaping point. Happy? BINGO! You have just done something lots of people say is impossible.

Report back at leisure....

Richard

Wapping said:

Right here goes...



Click on the highlighted route. A black line will appear between your start and end points. Drag this line onto the road you want to take. in your case it's the A34 to start with. Release the mouse button. The Mac created route will now move.

Repeat again. You'll notice that the black line now only appears between either your start or end points and the intermediate shaping point point on the A34 you have just created. Now drag the route to the point on the A34 you chose. Now do the same again to the M27. Take a bit of care and you'll very soon work out how to do this smoothly and efficiently; there's a bit of a knack to it but it's by no means difficult.

Happy? Great, nearly there.


Richard

Click to expand...

One thing to watch put for - ensure that when dragging a route in this manner that the point you create is on the correct side of the road - enlarge the map and double check - otherwise the Nav will have you doubling back to arrive at a point on the opposite carriageway or side of the road. Often catches me out

That's great Wapping/Richard. Thanks for doing that, I'll check it out tonight.

Excellent, you'll soon have route creation in BaseCamp on a Mac humming along.

You asked another question, which was what is the difference between a shaping point and a waypoint? Here's a simplified explanation:

A shaping point, the little blue dot on your Nav V, is simply that. It's an electronic point that you have created in order to ensure that a pre-planned route passes along a certain road and / or heads in a certain direction that you want it to take. By default they are unannounced, in that you'll not receive a voice notification of their presence. I don't run any sound when using my GPS on my motorcycles, so I don't know very much about this particular feature.

A waypoint, is an electronic point that you have created in order to ensure that a route MUST go through a certain point. For example you might use one if you knew that you MUST visit a certain cafe whilst on a journey from A to B. Waypoints will appear as yellow flags on your Nav V. Their civilian origin comes in part from navigation in blue water ocean racing, where a yacht has to pass through a certain point in an otherwise featureless seascape. Unlike unannounced shaping points, you will receive a sound notification.

So, in essence, shaping points and waypoints are similar but different. How and why you use either or both is up to you.

Your Nav V and its associated BaseCamp software allows you to do all sorts of clever things with shaping and way points, changing the way that they work, their symbols and whether you want to skip one or more of them out. You'll have seen in post #13 that BaseCamp allows you to change a shaping point into a waypoint and visa-versa; you can also do this within the Nav V itself. Similarly, you can dictate whether a waypoint appears in your favourite lists or not and / or whether it is tethered to just one specific route or to many.

You'll see a lot of needless critisism of BaseCamp on these pages along with confusion over how a Nav V and its sister Garmin units work when running routes. You have made a cracking start in that you have a Mac and have already learnt lots about creating routes. Stay with it, it - and your Nav V - will reward you, I promise. It really is very powerful software and it's a very powerful navigational device.


This is a good website: http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp_MAC.pdf its examples are based on American detailed maps but you'll definitely be able to see how the very detailed screen shots and written explanations work, for sure.

It is very detailed. I'd caution against trying to learn everything at once, not least as you may well learn lots when you are away using your Nav V in the real world. But, the website has lots of very good advice, so do not ignore it all.... Unless you find something that works really well for you. I can take issue with some of the suggestions in the website's advice, particularly on recalculation of a pre-planned route on importation into a GPS device but that's just detail. Remember, a Mac, a PC and a GPS navigation device are nothing more than personal computers at some level or another. What makes sense and works for you, might make no sense to someone else. But take a bit of care; your fancy trick might bring with it some unexpected consequences later. Take care and always remember that ultimately YOU are in control as it's only a box of plastic and electronic widgets. Sometimes they can be remarkably stupid and other times really very clever... Just like their owners.

This is another good thread: http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...av-V-590-The-latest-generation-Garmin-devices

The trick, if there is one, is to try to keep things as simple as possible, at least when you start. What you want to do is try to remove as many variables as possible between how YOU created YOUR pre-planned route on YOUR computer and how it functions on YOUR GPS device when YOU are away from home. Get that bit right and then start to learn all the fancy tricks, exploiting all the bells and whistles Garmin have to offer. You can do it! Why? Because others can.

Great info! Ta.

Waypoints and shaping points are the same thing, except a waypoint will announce (approach/arrival) and a shaping point will not.

Use shaping points to force the route to go a particular way if the automated route doesn't go the way you want.

You can drag the route on to the roads you want to use, but without shaping points (or waypoints) if the route recalculates it might not stay on that road

The only annoying thing is if you take a detour the NavV will still try to guide you back to your (next) shaping point as if it were a waypoint (which it kind of is) and you have to use the skip function (funny looking button top right on screen during guidance)

Have to say I have had the same frustrations as you and more but slowly coming to like the NavV when it behaves.

Think of your NavV like a small child, when they behave and play nice they are wonderful and a joy to behold

When they are not you want to launch them out of the nearest Window (not doable on a bike but your get the idea)

DJ GSA said:

The only annoying thing is if you take a detour the NavV will still try to guide you back to your (next) shaping point as if it were a waypoint (which it kind of is)

Click to expand...

Which makes me wonder why so many bods get annoyed when their GPS devices apparently do not take them back to their pre-set route.

You find it annoying when it does; they find it annoying when it doesn't. Funny old world.

DJ GSA said:

Waypoints and shaping points are the same thing, except a waypoint will announce (approach/arrival) and a shaping point will not.

)

Click to expand...

I must be doing something wrong because in my world a waypoint is an instruction that I really want to go there and my devices will continue to try to get me there until either I arrive at the waypoint or I use the skip function. A via point is an instruction to go that way but without the compulsion, if I miss one the devices simply takes me on to the next. It does not try to take me back nor do I need to use the skip function to prevent it doing so.

You are right though in as far as in using Mapsource waypoints are announced and via points are not, this happens automatically.

John