If you take a look at patzx12 first post on this issue he became aware of a "slightest whoosh-whoosh noise" from the final drive, so in theory, if yours is quiet and oil tight, its probably ok…I am sure if I open mine FD with similar milage , I will discover the same issue....
A+ Pogo
The inside of my FD
- Thread starter patzx12
- Start date
patzx12
Registered user
In my opinion a BMW dealer would not attempt this, most main dealers car or bike have become service technicians. If an item is faulty replace the unit, if an item shows a fault when plugged into the diagnosis computer replace + the standard servicing.
patzx12
Registered user
Hi the pinion is fine, take a look at the close up, the inner race of the bearing is still attached to the end of the pinion. This will be removed with pullers and discarded.
patzx12
Registered user
Yery true, I used the BMW recomended tempretures on the spec sheets I downloaded. I use an electronic laser thermomiter for the job (the yellow yoke in one of the pictures).
Does anybody offer a final drive rebuild as a service exchange type item? There must be a mountain of bevel boxes somewhere just waiting for fettling.
Either that or BMW are recycling them & when a warrantee claim is made the replacement is a rebuilt drive.
Anyway, well done, it's very interesting, are you buying the parts from BMW or can you find them on the open market?
Shep
Either that or BMW are recycling them & when a warrantee claim is made the replacement is a rebuilt drive.
Anyway, well done, it's very interesting, are you buying the parts from BMW or can you find them on the open market?
Shep
Nice job Pat, and good to see exactly how the FD goes together. The message seems to be to catch the bearings early before the gears get destroyed by the debris / misalignment.
There must be a market for reconditioning these units ......
There must be a market for reconditioning these units ......
This is exactly the same problem we had in 60's /70's with Triumph Herald/ Vitesse, GT6 and Spitfire driveshafts.
The inner bearing [ball] never wore, but the bastid outer needle rollers used to disintegrate and take the shaft out, leading to great expense.
My personal remedy was to turn shaft to take a smaller inner dia and the hub to a slightly larger outer dia needle roller and make sure the Grease nipple was permanently in situ.
Modern thing of the time was all grease points had plugs and you had one nipple to be inserted in every point @12.000 miles and greased then replug and move to next one
One other point, I ALWAYS use this stuff for rebuilding Everthing involving engines and metal to metal bearings>>
http://www.graphogen.co.uk/
Driveshafts and engines I built over 20 years ago are still running smoothly
thanks to that stuff 
Fantastic work Pat I'm following this thread with delight knowing there are still "PROPER ENGINEERS" about
The inner bearing [ball] never wore, but the bastid outer needle rollers used to disintegrate and take the shaft out, leading to great expense.
My personal remedy was to turn shaft to take a smaller inner dia and the hub to a slightly larger outer dia needle roller and make sure the Grease nipple was permanently in situ.
Modern thing of the time was all grease points had plugs and you had one nipple to be inserted in every point @12.000 miles and greased then replug and move to next one
One other point, I ALWAYS use this stuff for rebuilding Everthing involving engines and metal to metal bearings>>
http://www.graphogen.co.uk/
Driveshafts and engines I built over 20 years ago are still running smoothly
thanks to that stuff Fantastic work Pat
I'm following this thread with delight knowing there are still "PROPER ENGINEERS" about
Fantastic work Pat
Me too. Great thread. Good man yourself Pat.
patzx12
Registered user
The conclusions I have come to so far, this is just my opinions and relates to my bikes. other peoples bikes and experiences may differ.
Download or buy the latest BMW service CD rom, make sure its the latest one. This has all the tolerances and measurments.
1) Never power wash, ever, not ever.
2) Check the rear wheel for movment side to side.
3) Spin the wheel with the brake pads backed off and not rubbing the disk. You want to be in a quiet place. There should be absolutly no noise when you spin the wheel, it would be a good idea if you have a buddy with a GS to do both at the same time this lets you compare bikes. make shure you pump up the brake again before riding.
4) Change the FD oil every 6,000 to 10,000 miles.
5) When you have the FD swung down wiggle the pinion spline, there should be no movment.
6) Do the same with the drive shaft, wiggle back and forward and check for any play in the UJ's
7) Change the RH seal when you change the oil, it's a cheap item, the how to is on the BMW CD Rom.
8) Non of the above applies to bikes in warrenty.
Download or buy the latest BMW service CD rom, make sure its the latest one. This has all the tolerances and measurments.
1) Never power wash, ever, not ever.
2) Check the rear wheel for movment side to side.
3) Spin the wheel with the brake pads backed off and not rubbing the disk. You want to be in a quiet place. There should be absolutly no noise when you spin the wheel, it would be a good idea if you have a buddy with a GS to do both at the same time this lets you compare bikes. make shure you pump up the brake again before riding.
4) Change the FD oil every 6,000 to 10,000 miles.
5) When you have the FD swung down wiggle the pinion spline, there should be no movment.
6) Do the same with the drive shaft, wiggle back and forward and check for any play in the UJ's
7) Change the RH seal when you change the oil, it's a cheap item, the how to is on the BMW CD Rom.
8) Non of the above applies to bikes in warrenty.
Great stuff Pat I drive a 04 with 42,000Km I am sure while the current backaxle has 30k on it and is sound at the moment and is NEVER power washed I am sure this job is not that far off thanks for taking the time to share your experience.
Good engineering there Pat. If I now had access to a lathe/mill/dividing head I'd make a tool myself for the day I will inevitably need it. EN16T would be hard/tough enough I guess ?
I got lucky last time and the dealers replaced my FD as a goodwill gesture outside of warranty (due the input pinion seal leaking) as BMW don't rebuild them. Next time I will be on my own with the FD repairs.
Any difficulty in removing the needle roller bearings outer race from the casting ?
Thanks for taking the time with the report and pictures Pat, much appreciated.
Thanks for the tip on Graphogen Proff, I'll get some for the shed/garage.
Pat, are you interested in a mail order repair service now you are tooled up ?
I got lucky last time and the dealers replaced my FD as a goodwill gesture outside of warranty (due the input pinion seal leaking) as BMW don't rebuild them. Next time I will be on my own with the FD repairs.
Any difficulty in removing the needle roller bearings outer race from the casting ?
Thanks for taking the time with the report and pictures Pat, much appreciated.
Thanks for the tip on Graphogen Proff, I'll get some for the shed/garage.
Pat, are you interested in a mail order repair service now you are tooled up ?
tuckerqvmcc
Guest
My '04 FD is in the hands of BMW UK who requested it be sent over for inspection/diagnosis of failure after I shelled out 65% costs on a good will out of warranty new FD fix a few months back......(£500 odd in total)
I will be requesting the old '04 unit be returned to me after they finish their research on the cause of failure.
I'm in the fortunate position of working in a major engineering environment so the old unit will be getting a full overhaul (if financially viable) & used as a spare just incase my newly fitted FD fecks up after the 2 year warranty given with it....
Unfortunately my '04 unit shat itself big style with the "Crown Gear Set" (through axle shaft) & wheel carrier munching themselves to pieces...
I'm sure Jaythro will be along shortly to fire a pic up of the said damaged part.
Now I know that this FD fix may only be a matter of replacing seals & bearings etc. in most cases but in my case the "Crown gear set" is £300 alone before replacing the wheel carrier, bearings or seals!
My '04 model is listed as one of a batch of 1200's that suffered incorrect tolearnce machining hence the munching of the splines on the crown gear set & wheel carrier.
It will be interesting to see when opened up how much internal FD damage was caused with the bearings etc.
In my case all the parts required to rebuild the FD will be much more expensive & possibly another good reason why BMW just replace rather than fix over & above their lack of Knowledge of a full rebuild?
Excellent post BTW.....
Hopefully alleviate a lot of folks fear's over the dreaded BMW FD failure increase!
I will be requesting the old '04 unit be returned to me after they finish their research on the cause of failure.
I'm in the fortunate position of working in a major engineering environment so the old unit will be getting a full overhaul (if financially viable) & used as a spare just incase my newly fitted FD fecks up after the 2 year warranty given with it....
Unfortunately my '04 unit shat itself big style with the "Crown Gear Set" (through axle shaft) & wheel carrier munching themselves to pieces...
I'm sure Jaythro will be along shortly to fire a pic up of the said damaged part.
Now I know that this FD fix may only be a matter of replacing seals & bearings etc. in most cases but in my case the "Crown gear set" is £300 alone before replacing the wheel carrier, bearings or seals!
My '04 model is listed as one of a batch of 1200's that suffered incorrect tolearnce machining hence the munching of the splines on the crown gear set & wheel carrier.
It will be interesting to see when opened up how much internal FD damage was caused with the bearings etc.
In my case all the parts required to rebuild the FD will be much more expensive & possibly another good reason why BMW just replace rather than fix over & above their lack of Knowledge of a full rebuild?
Excellent post BTW.....
Hopefully alleviate a lot of folks fear's over the dreaded BMW FD failure increase!
My original FD was swapped out early on despite showing no wear, for the same reason. It makes me wonder why yours wasn't recalled for the fault if they know what build date your bike is ?
I also wonder exactly how many items manufactured were sample tested for quality and conformity during the production run (and how many suspect items are in circulation today ??)
Julio de Torremolinos
Registered user
Some of your recommendatios are more than wise. I wish to point out 2 of them: Power washer DO KILL the mechanichal parts, more than what most people think and, 2) Oil change in FD is VERY necessary in the fist 10K km and then at 20k km. Ofter that, it seams that oil does not suffer so much and comes much more "cleaner". First change was like black tar with an smell I can´t describe.
patzx12
Registered user
Hi Julio, I will be down your way next week on the bike, any good biker hangouts? We will be staying in Marbella.
Julio de Torremolinos
Registered user
Many... plenty... welcome to bikers paradise...
I´ll tyry te send you a private msg with my phone. I can pass you nice roads via Garmin or Ozi. Send me a mail to juliogarciallama-at-gmail-dot-com with your email adress.
I´ll tyry te send you a private msg with my phone. I can pass you nice roads via Garmin or Ozi. Send me a mail to juliogarciallama-at-gmail-dot-com with your email adress.mpdouglas
Guest
Why all this scaremongering about pressure washing ?!
Was there any water discovered inside the FD when it was stripped down ? If not, what is the basis of such fervent hatred of power washing. Every dealer I know of power washed the bikes when they have been in for a service. I have power washed every one of the 5 BMW bikes I have had on a weekly basis and suffered no adverse consequences over the past 10 years. ( I tell a lie - my R1100S failed once because of water ingress in the SpyBall alarm - but that was about as water resistant as string vest).
Was there any water discovered inside the FD when it was stripped down ? If not, what is the basis of such fervent hatred of power washing. Every dealer I know of power washed the bikes when they have been in for a service. I have power washed every one of the 5 BMW bikes I have had on a weekly basis and suffered no adverse consequences over the past 10 years. ( I tell a lie - my R1100S failed once because of water ingress in the SpyBall alarm - but that was about as water resistant as string vest).
Hey Pat, and chance of an update on how the rebuild went.
Any problems with reassembly?
Any problems with reassembly?
patzx12
Registered user
I reassembled and fitted the FD last week, I was away in Spain\France on my GT for most of Dec.
I ordered the replacment needle bearing from BMW. it's a special size 30x16
bonkers why not use a standard off the shelf bearing.
BMW uprated to a standard size 32x16 bearing in 08\06 on. This cannot be retrofitted.
Heated the housing and tapped in the outer bearing shell,
there is a fiddley 2mm split pin they use as a retainer god knows why.
Fitted a new seal to the pinion assemblt and tapped it home into the housing.
lubed everythind with transmission oil, no grease in case it would contaminate the oil. screwed in the castle nut and pinion nut, this cannot be tightened yet until the whole FD is back together and on the fixture.
I ordered the replacment needle bearing from BMW. it's a special size 30x16
bonkers why not use a standard off the shelf bearing.
BMW uprated to a standard size 32x16 bearing in 08\06 on. This cannot be retrofitted.
Heated the housing and tapped in the outer bearing shell,
there is a fiddley 2mm split pin they use as a retainer god knows why.
Fitted a new seal to the pinion assemblt and tapped it home into the housing.
lubed everythind with transmission oil, no grease in case it would contaminate the oil. screwed in the castle nut and pinion nut, this cannot be tightened yet until the whole FD is back together and on the fixture.
Attachments
this is a great thread and you are giving hope to those who have no warranty. would you say this is commercially viable to do for people ??
Similar threads
