Looking for advice on WW1&2 battlefield tour

Canuck_Dave

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Greetings,

I am a retired Canadian soldier and an avid bike rider. Several buddies and I are looking into a self-guided battlefield tour on bikes in the spring of 2017. Our plan is to ship our bikes over to a major Center (likely Heathrow) and head over to take in the sites. We have no firm timeframe and are more interested in seeing it all. Plans are still very fluid but what we are interested in is advice on where we should start and then where we should end. I have conducted a little research on this searching for POIs and such, and that is how I happened onto this forum. As Canadians, we are not so much interested in Utah and Omaha beachs (although as some of us are paratroopers, we're thinking to take in the Airborne Museum at Ste Mere- Eglise) then focusing mostly on areas where there was Canadian involvement such as Normandy, The Somme, Vimmy, etc. We'd like to trek up as far as Holland taking in anything worthwhile alongmm the way in anticipation of being in Vimy for the 100th Anniversary. Any suggestion or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
First off welcome to this forum, and from what you have said it looks like you will be starting your trip from the uk, and with no fixed time scale France Belgium Holland and Germany have masses to see. You have mentioned Normandy and the beaches a good starting point from the uk, from there you could head southward to the somme and vimmy, and from there i would move onto Verdun (google it) a place that has so much to see with reference to WW1 you could spend a few days there and not see it all you could then follow the Maginot line (google it) North taking in all the ww1 fortifications on the way and from there head towards Bastogne in Belgium where the battle of the bulge took place and where the 101st airbourne (easy company were there) again lots to see.
From Bastogne you could move North toward Ypres, again plenty to see and do, you could also pop back into france from there and take a look at le coupole and the Blockhaus both are very good WW2 sites/museums again google them.
You will have loads of people from this site giving you lots of info on places to see, above ideas do not even scratch the surface. You could always use the search function on the forum and search WW1 and WW2 places to visit, a good place to start would be http://www.ukgser.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/263-Battlefields-amp-Military-Interest
 
Visit Ypres on your way north. Its only an hour and a bit to Calais.

There is a very very good museum/display in the Cloth Hall for WW1 info. You should also try and fit in the nightly Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate...very moving and evocative. Once you start delving you'll find there is so much you'll want to see that you'll be back every year!
 
By the sound of it , if you start from England, I'd be taking the Portsmouth/Caen crossing or similar... that will drop you right in the middle of the WW2 stuff...... St.Mere Eglise is on the Western edge of the D Day events.... we stayed in the village in 2014 ....

Once you have done the D Day beaches it is a bit of a trek towards the WW1 battlefields, Verdun has been mentioned, and Ypres, both not to miss. Bastogne is only a couple of hours max from Verdun......

Sounds like a great trip ..welcome to the site :thumb
 
For the WW2, the Day landings have a look at http://www.junobeach.info/ From Ouistrem - largish town, depending on the time of your visit, could make a good base - west to Arromanche there is a great deal to see.

Due south to Benouville is Pegaus bridge, the first objective to be attained on Day, lots of stories about the gliders, capturing the bridge itself and liberation of the first building, the Cafe Gondree. A small museum lays out the sequence and reasons. You will pick up pointers to quite a few other strategic objectives, river crossings, blockhaus and gun emplacements which could have derailed allied plans
Back to the coast and Courseulles sur Mer which was the centre of Juno Beach, and another first building liberated, first by sea bourne forces - yea the Canadians! You will recognise it because it is the one in all the newsreel clips. There is a blog somewhere by some guys doing the visit.

As you approach Arromanches, on the top of the cliffs before you drop down into town, there is the Arromanches 360, which shows a montage of documentary, re-enactment and video of the places where actions took place. Very moving, powerful and give a real sense of time and place.
Into the town is the Musee du Debarquement which gives a great view of the overall invasion, then focuses in on Mulberry and the more local events. If the tide is out a walk out to the remaining caissons is recommended. If you haven't heard much about the Mulberry, then a bit of homework will give some perspective.
I lived quite near the town of Corby, where the steel pipe for PLUTO was designed and made. PLUTO = pipeline under the ocean. Huge quantities of fuel for all the vehicles was pumped through this small bowser. AFAIK, no trace remains.

Continue west to Bayeaux, which was the first sizable town/city liberated. It also is home to the Bayeux Tapestry. Made in the 1080's, it documents the story behind the Norman invasion of England and the Battle of Hastings and the forging of not always amical relations between the to countries of France and England.
Beyond to the west is the US sector of Omaha and Utah, worth a visit if you haven't been before.

Back to the east of Ouistrem, and you can use some nice roads across rural Normandy, Caen is a decent sized city now, but with plenty to see, but also the bustle and difficulties of trying to do these places on a short time scale. However the Le Mémorial de Caen is worth it.

There are so many other places of interest in and around Normandy, it really just depends on what you want to see or what your interests are.
Using smaller roads will make the whole riding experience nicer too. Motorways are uninteresting and the larger N roads, the trunk roads, can be boring and full of traffic.
Many towns and villages have had by passes built, but then of course you miss all the historic places and just see fields, I almost always take the Centre Ville sign.
If there are artistic or garden lovers in the party then a side trip to Giverny, to see Monets garden is well worth the detor.

The defining moment for Canadian Forces in WW1 was the Battle for Vimy Ridge. The courage, determination and sacrifice of the Canadian Corps at Vimy led to France giving the land on which the battle was fought to Canada in perpetuity. The visitors centre is manned by Canadian Students who take you on the tours of the Grange Highway - the vast underground labyrinth which played a significant part in the operations success. Trench lines have been maintained so you can see the proximity and relationship of one side to the other.

Vimy is close by Arras. As well as the "old" town, the quotes are because it was shelled to buggery in WW1, had just been rebuilt and got shelled again in WW2. Once again, it has now been rebuilt to its former glory - well worth the trip. Nice town for a wander, especially if you can get there on market day - that applies to most French villages, towns and cities - IIRC on Saturdays? for the biggest one
Arras has a large Vauban fort (Vauban was an interesting guy, what we would now call a sapper/military engineer, and humanist) he designed well over 100 forts to surround the French borders at the time of Louis 14, all characteristic of the "Star" fort.
If you follow the signs "Citadelle", on the Boulevard de General de Gaulle,you come to the distinctive CWWG. There is easy parking. Following the path, you arrive at the Mur de Fusilles, where the gestapo shot many members of the local Resistance.

In France, there is always an better - usually much better - alternative to autoroutes. A few minutes look at a real map, will give you some ideas of the roads which are likely to be more interesting. The map lets you see the "big picture" away from the "shortest, quickest" algorithms.
Yellow roads are "D" roads. D for Departmentals, ie the responsibility of the locals. These will more often follow the lie of the land and be the result of eons of people and animals going about their business of making nice routes for us to follow along. Almost certainly less traffic, almost certainly more picturesque, almost certainly bereft of policing - although take care, the fines for excess speed are quite high and are definitely "on-the-spot", "take me to your ATM" sort. Real excess speed can apparently result in your vehicle being confiscated.
In case that all seems a bit heavy, the French, along with most other Europeans (possible exceptions being here in UK) are usually very friendly, welcoming and understanding towards bikers. In even high class joints.
Michelin regional maps are usually available in supermarkets or librairie (bookstore) Usually yellow and 1:200,000 scale. The relevant numbers on mine are Normandy = 231, Nord = 236. A red 721 national map at 1:1,000,000 can give a good overview for liason stages, or seeing if it is possible to pull in something you just heard about. Online too of course.

Have a great time.
 
Dave, if you want to take in the Somme then stay here http://www.orchardfarmsomme.com/ it is run by Martin Pegler and his wife. Martin is a published military author and is an expert on the region and rides a GS. If you want he will take you on a guided tour of the Somme and take in any areas of specific interest that involved Canadian troops. Thoroughly recommend it as his commentary is fantastic and he really brings the locations to life if that is not a misnomer.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/153299.Martin_Pegler
 
Beaumont Hamel memorial park (Newfoundland Regt),the Thiepval memorial,Vimmy Ridge, Yrpes (Menin gate ceremony 20.00hrs daily) Pegasus Bridge (airborne museum and cafe on opposite side of the bridge) and loads more

Norrie
 
Morning and welcome to the forum. In a month's time or so, I'm leading a bunch of members of this very forum on a wee foray to some of the places you mention. I suspect I'll be doing something similar next year. No money changing hands, just taking fellow bike enthusiasts to places I've been before. If you become a subscriber to the forum, you can keep in touch via pm and get more info that way.

If you'd rather do it on your own (or a combination of the two) then that's fine of course. Happy to give advice.
 
Whatever you do, please include Ypres, stay at least one night and go the Menin gate at 8pm for the ceremony. Allow several hours and go to the Flanders in the Fields museum in the Cloth Hall in the market place.

The airborne museum mentioned in Sainte-Mère-Église is a great visit and there re any other interesting sites in Normandy.

http://www.batterie-merville.com/the-museum/?lang=en

http://www.memorial-pegasus.org/mmp/musee_debarquement/?lang=uk

Arromanches - http://d-dayrevisited.co.uk/d-day/mulberry-harbour.html
 
Dave, if you want to take in the Somme then stay here http://www.orchardfarmsomme.com/ it is run by Martin Pegler and his wife. Martin is a published military author and is an expert on the region and rides a GS. If you want he will take you on a guided tour of the Somme and take in any areas of specific interest that involved Canadian troops. Thoroughly recommend it as his commentary is fantastic and he really brings the locations to life if that is not a misnomer.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/153299.Martin_Pegler

Garmin friendly location N50.01228° E2.86155°
 
Morning and welcome to the forum. In a month's time or so, I'm leading a bunch of members of this very forum on a wee foray to some of the places you mention. I suspect I'll be doing something similar next year. No money changing hands, just taking fellow bike enthusiasts to places I've been before. If you become a subscriber to the forum, you can keep in touch via pm and get more info that way.

If you'd rather do it on your own (or a combination of the two) then that's fine of course. Happy to give advice.
You didn't mention the beer and song sheets oh, and don't forget the homework!!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
Hi Dave and Welcome, hope you will continue to dip in and out of the site in prep for your trip.
As Bryn says, based on your background and expressed wishes, starting in St Mer Eglise will be really relevant for you, then eventually moving up and staying for a few nights at chez Pegler will give the early stuff much needed context. Its only about four hours from Eglise up to WW1 sites taking easier roads and avoiding Paris so no great stretch.
HTH.
Brian
 
You didn't mention the beer and song sheets oh, and don't forget the homework!!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Yep. Info booklet coming your way after Easter too! "I vill be eskink quvestions!" Did I mention the wakey wakey rise n shine you orrible things you!" AND piper / bugle reveille?:scotsman
 
Last Post at the Menin Gate is very moving.
Last time I was there with about 20 youngsters. They had organised and collected some cash and bought a wreath (all on heir own backs). The two kids they nominated to lay the wreath, one was German, the other an English lass. All were very tearful by the end.
The actual wreath laying ceremony was lead by the Australian Ambassador as it was an anniversary of some notable slaughter.

Not too far away is Tyne Cot, well recomended here. Not so often visited is the German Cemetery at Langemarck, probably because there are several optional spellings. http://www.greatwar.co.uk/ypres-salient/cemetery-langemark.htm
The style of most German war graves is quite different to the CWWG and French. They are similar to many Friedhof in Germany. Very often the burials are in mass graves. The feel is much darker, not so much brooding, but expressing the melancholy which must have been all pervading at home. With many yew trees and dark sandstone, they can also be harder to spot in the landscape. However, very well worth seeking one out and seeing how a different nation tried to come to terms with the vast numbers of its war dead.

You can check on the CWWG site http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx to find where any particular person is buried or commemorated. Each war cemetery I have visited has a book showing the layout and where individuals are, if known.
 
Thanks all for all the good input. My buddies and I will continue to research this as we have the time and maybe when we've nailed down our route, I'll post it to see if we're missing anything that might be important. Thanks again.:thumb
 
Hello Dave and company,

Plenty of good advice on here and it should build even more-so over the next few weeks.

My tuppenceworth...

Can I recommend the following books -both by Tonie and Valmai Holt (plenty written by them both under the name Major & Mrs Holt)...

1. Battlefields of the First World War (ISBN No. 1-902616-29-4)
2. Normandy Landing Beaches (ISBN No. O 85052 662-0)

Of the tips others are suggesting may I suggest the following:

A day to Arras to view Carrierre Wellington (Tunnels under the city dug by the New Zealanders)

St Symphorien CWGC cemetery on Route 22 east of Mons - without question the most remarkable cemetery on the Western Front - look it up and you'll see what I mean. If you're in the area there are also monuments to the sites of the first and last shots fired.

good luck :thumb2
 
I reread the OP, "seeing it all" I assume is just a casual turn of phrase.
I don't know what your time scale is, but I spent a fortnight on my own, trying to visit all the CWWG in a comparatively small area round Le Cateau, from the battles of 1914, then ran into a whole bunch of smaller CWWG of the Kaiserschlacht in 1918, as the BEF was pushed back.
I'm sure you are not going to get into that much detail, but the areas covered by the battlefields of WW1+2 is huge, and some of the back roads to them are not so good, although they make nice riding if you are ready and in the mood.
 
Dave,

Zigy in Boulder, CO here. I'm very interested in your idea and wondering if you would be amenable to another rider with you? I've a lot of WWII history knowledge, and while not offering myself as a guide, would be happy to share my info. I also speak some French (lived in Paris for some years and have traveled there extensively, car and motorcycle).

If interested, I would ship my GS up to wherever you intend to launch from. Last year Air Canada had a great deal for shipping bikes to UK, only $700 for rider if accompanying bike on same flight. The flights were only from major hubs; how are you shipping your machines?

Zigy Kaluzny
R1200GS W
Boulder CO
 


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