1150GS - FAIL TO START - BEEN STOP START RUNNING ERRANDS ALL DAY

I think you've already come to the conclusion, but it sounds to me like the problem is the solenoid in your starter. I think it's stuck, or shorted and it's pulling the voltage down when you turn the key on. You could disconnect the starter from the bike electrics, take a set of jump leads from the land rover battery and connect them to the solenoid connections. If the solenoid is okay, you'll get a click. If it's not, you'll get a flash and maybe a bang. :D
 
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thanks, yep, done that and once got a result, the rest of the time nothing
I think that is the root cause, but it has caused some other problems - to be worked when the starter motor system is working
I think I am facing a minor overhaul, with the rear frame off to access the electric loom
need to solve one problem at a time though
 
Remove Starter relay (big yellow one) for safety during this next step.
Take the black wire off the starter motor solenoid and connect it directly to earth.
The load relief relay should now energise when you turn the ignition key.
If you have lights and horn and the relay is not chattering then you have proved part of the black wire is OK.
Disconnect the black wire from the earth, leave it disconnected.
Turn off the ignition.


Refit the starter relay.
Connect a DVM between the black wire and ground.
Turn on ignition.
The load relay will not energise, so you will have no lights and horn.
That's OK.
Now when you press the start button you should get 12v reading on the DVM.
if you do, then this proves that the other path of the black wire is OK.
It also proves the load relief relay, starter relay and all associated wiring in the fuse box is OK
Turn off the ignition.

You can disconnect the DVM from the black wire, but leave the wire disconnected.

Move to the starter motor.
You do not need ignition on for this check, as the wiring is live all the time as it is connected direct to the battery.
You need to flash 12v onto the small terminal where the black wire connects.
You can do this by shorting across momentarily from the large positive terminal on the starter motor.
A piece of wire is OK. But be prepared at this stage if the starter solenoid is faulty.
Either your starter motor will spin, or all your electrics will be pulled down. Like grounding your battery. If you use a thin wire, then the wire will most likely melt. If you use anything solid, then it could try to weld it's self.
Just a dab to see if the solenoid pulls in and the starter motor turns
Proceed with caution.

Let us know the outcome.
 
I just stripped the starter assembly apart again
I checked the brushes, the condition and all seemed good and normal to me
I figured that i could connect positive from the Land Rover to one brush, and the negative from the Land Rover to the other brush.

Nothing.

Maybe my jumper cables are shit

All certainly looks ok with the starter assy
The neighbors are all done for the day, and this isn't that much of a problem to get help

Tomorrow, going to take the starter assy to a place in town and see if it can be bench tested.
If it works all ok, then do the big test above

This has really got me beat now, but maybe my test equipment (the jumper cables I am using are buggered)?
 
You don't need the starter motor fitted to your bike to test the Black wire and it's associated circuits and components. Just make sure that the big red starter cable is insulated before you connect the battery.

Your fault is most likely to be the starter motor though as it happened after repeated stop/starts.
 
I am not trusting much at the moment, have re-assembled it, taking it to local mechanic tomorrow

SITREP when availble
 
Testing the starter motor off the bike is pretty simple.

Connect a jump lead between the starter motor casing and the negative of a battery.
Connect a jump lead between the positive terminal of the starter motor and the positive terminal of a battery.
Put your foot on the starter motor to stop it flying across the floor.
Flash the positive from the starter positive terminal to the little terminal that the black wire connects to.

If the solenoid doesn't pull in and the starter spin, assuming your battery is charged. Your starter is dead.
 
Hay Ewe said:
ok
but I am not trusting my jump leads any more
Click to expand...

To be honest your whole diagnostic/fault finding method sucks. You seem to be like a bull in a china shop, neither confirming or knowing for sure if everything you're checking works or doesn't before moving onto the next thing and repeating the same procedure.
 
I tested the starter motor by clamping it a vice, using a battery boost charger attached the neg cable to the case and put the live against the big terminal. Starter worked. Repeated the process but put the live against the solenoid supply terminal and then used a random piece of spare wire to energise the solenoid and confirm that all worked.

Have you taken the covers off the relays and made sure the contacts aren't burnt? Just because they're clicking it doesn't mean that they are making good electrical contact.

Oops, too slow at the keyboard.
 
Steptoe said:
To be honest your whole diagnostic/fault finding method sucks. You seem to be like a bull in a china shop, neither confirming or knowing for sure if everything you're checking works or doesn't before moving onto the next thing and repeating the same procedure.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comment.
This isn't my normal day to day job and so I am working through the situation in what I think is a logical order, eliminating as I can.
We both have quite different jobs and can use our knowledge and learnt processes to help us.
We where don't have the knowledge to progress, we ask for others, some times those others think we are doing things with out logic, and that is why we seek guidance from them.

Living in Far North Australia, it isn't practical for me to get my moto to a work shop facility that is specalised in BMW motorbikes, hence, I am trying to work it through myself, seeking assistance and guidance from others.
 
I took the starter to an automotive place in town this morning, it spins fine.
then they tested the solonid part, that throws out fine - all in all, it function tests just fine!

I tried some jump leads from the neighbour - seems like mine are buggered and not working
With the battery installed and the jumper leads to the Land Rover - engine turned over just fine.

I think there is still a problem as the RPM Tacho needle was up around 6000 RPM, but at least I got the engine to turn over!
that is a win.

I havent had time to do much else, more to follow when I can
 
Hay Ewe said:
Thank you for your comment.
This isn't my normal day to day job and so I am working through the situation in what I think is a logical order, eliminating as I can.
We both have quite different jobs and can use our knowledge and learnt processes to help us.
We where don't have the knowledge to progress, we ask for others, some times those others think we are doing things with out logic, and that is why we seek guidance from them.

Living in Far North Australia, it isn't practical for me to get my moto to a work shop facility that is specalised in BMW motorbikes, hence, I am trying to work it through myself, seeking assistance and guidance from others.
Click to expand...

Everyone has been offering advice but you don't "tick off" the problems (starting with the easiest) one at a time as tested and working.
You seem to half test it or have a guess without confirming 100% if the part is functioning and then move onto the next part on the list of potential faults.
Diagnosing is fairly straighforward, IF you work in a methodical manner rather than in a haphazard way.
You can't be sure that your jump leads even work :D
 
Hi all
Well, who would have thunk it, maybe obvious, but not to me - then.

Turned out that my jumper leads are buggered and not working. I tried with neighbors jumper leads and it all works.
I then got a new battery and the battery that I had, has dropped at least one cell inside.
Connected that up and it turns over just fine. It didn't start because no fuel tank and the throttle cables disconnected.

Now that I have that much disassembled, I have also pulled the alternator and going to get that bench tested as well.
and then usual stuff like the valve clearances, TPS, spark plugs etc

Thank you all for your advise and information
 
re-assembled and running
bit rough as it needs throttle body balance, but good starts and just been for a turn.
I think this problem is solved - just need some proper jump leads now!

thank you for all your help and advice
I learnt a bit on this little project

Hay Ewe
 
running a bit rough is a sign you have dislodged one or other of the the throttle cables

Just make sure the bits that turn when you twist the throttle grip on the inside of the throttle bodies are making it all teh way back to the stops

NOTE Do NOT adjust the little hex headed throttle stop screws on the inside of the throttle bodies They are factory set!

Can somebody find "The Pic" please!!

Hay Ewe said:
re-assembled and running
bit rough as it needs throttle body balance, but good starts and just been for a turn.
I think this problem is solved - just need some proper jump leads now!

thank you for all your help and advice
I learnt a bit on this little project

Hay Ewe
Click to expand...
 
The throttle cables are seated just fine.
It would be MUCH rougher running if the outer cable was sitting in top of the barrel adjuster, compared to that scenario, this is minor
I had removed the battery and the battery tray to get to the earth point under the battery tray, on top of the engine block.
Easiest way is to dissconnect the short cables.

they are seated fine, its just running a little rough as they need a little adjusting on the barrel threaded sections.
Vacuum gauges tomorrow evening will sort that out and get it running better for this week.

This weekend (if I dont go away for work) I shall check the TPS voltage as well, and if needed adjust that as well, valve clearances well.
The little hex bolts dont scare me too much
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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