IAM training/"making progress"

I have been having this argument for years

If you are on a motorway, say the M1 which is usually busy

You can be doing the speed limit which but be in amongst cars vans and HGVs with little or no space for error or safety

You can be doing somewhere between 70 and 80 and in space but clearly exceeding the limit

I chose space
 
Let’s throw another point in for discussion.

So yesterday I did my pre test with a different observer, and within 10 miles I could see things weren’t going to be good...

So when we stopped about 30 miles in, I took the bull by the horns and said ... I know what feedback your going to give... he looked shocked and taken aback.

See from my first ride with IAM, I was pulled for slowing for a change in speed limits .. ie 60 to a 30, I would roll off and be at the 30 without using brakes..... no no no I was told ... you need to make progress and brake safely for the 30. So over the last 5 rides I’ve changed my approach.

So back to yesterday... first time I did this, I could see my pre test observer was well back from me on every speed limit change ... because he was rolling off.

When I told him that’s what I’ve been told to adopt.. he was shocked and even surprised when he saw the note in my book!

So I’ve asked them both to discuss and give me a definitive answer before my test.

Can’t be right to have this fundamental difference on a system of riding.

Giles hits the mark as you'd expect. I too was confused.com after getting different answers from different observers "On what to do" so I asked the 2IC who did my pre test assessment for some guidance on specific things I was unsure of and what the examiner concerned was looking for based on feedback they'd had on other associates. You'll get a debrief at the end of the ride- mine seemed to go on for some time but it's your chance to explain what you were thinking and why you did certain things so you can use that as an opportunity to show you're the thinking rider he's looking for, not a robot who's just doing what he's been told to do parrot fashion without understanding why. Good luck on your test
 
See this is where it all gets very confusing or maybe I question what I’m being told ... yes I can use my own initiative and review each situation ...BUT I’ve been instructed that it’s a system to be followed, set pieces to learnt and under no circumstances must you break the law and definitely NOT exceed speed limits.

I’m going to complete my training and hopefully pass my test but am I a supporter of IAM ... No. for me it’s a means to an end.
 
I think one of the most important phrases in debriefs is 'In that particular situation....'

I get completely, that to teach 'grey' from the outset is difficult, and that to dish out a set of rules is a lot easier.

'Move away from a nearside junction as you approach it'. 'Give oncoming traffic a wide berth and move to the nearside as they approach you'. 'Deal with the junction on your nearside before the right hand bend'.

If I took up something Ive never done before (I often use the analogy of skiing), I too would want my instructor to say 'do this' rather than 'well you could do this, or you could do that .. what do you think?'. And so it is that we generate the rules, the black and whites, the chess moves, the dot to dot riding and the dreaded paint by numbers style.

The best debriefs and teaching styles should break down the ride and get the student to see why on one occasion he might do X, but why on another, almost identical scenario, he might do Y.

A Janet and John example would be a nearside junction prior to a right hand bend. In one scenario where you can't see into the junction and it has the classic high hedgerows etc etc then Yes, you'd expect the student to open up his view before dismissing it and then positioning for the bend.
But you might have an almost identical road layout 10 minutes later, the only difference being you can clearly see into the junction and its completely empty. The thinking rider will see its no threat and will position for the bend early, sailing over the mouth of the junction in the process.

That sort of stuff is pretty elementary, but a good debrief will be 'In that situation .....blah blah blah ..... but can you see how in that very similar scenario that you had ten minutes later you can treat it differently because .... '.

We don't want chess moves! WE HATE CHESS MOVES !!!! We want thinking riders!


Moving up the league table of Janet and John scenarios we eventually get to what sorts good riders form great riders. And great riders have a wonderful touch about them. Wonderful acceleration sense, they can dance with the road and the traffic and make it look so easy. They see the little opportunities to ease up and let something develop in front without ploughing in themselves, little opportunities to have a squirt of gas and pick out something from nothing, great restraint that can go hand in hand with an amazing turn of speed. They have .... 'touch'. Whilst I accept that they have developed that from a foundation of core principles and dare I say it 'rules', what you won't see in them is riding by 'rote'.

:thumb2
 
See this is where it all gets very confusing or maybe I question what I’m being told ... yes I can use my own initiative and review each situation ...BUT I’ve been instructed that it’s a system to be followed, set pieces to learnt and under no circumstances must you break the law and definitely NOT exceed speed limits.

I’m going to complete my training and hopefully pass my test but am I a supporter of IAM ... No. for me it’s a means to an end.
Umm, you're not supposed to break the law at all

There was a document called Common misconceptions for examiners (???) by Peter Rodgers which covered things like this. Your observer should be able to get a copy.

If you need to brake, do so.

Safety over rides everything.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
See this is where it all gets very confusing or maybe I question what I’m being told ... yes I can use my own initiative and review each situation ...BUT I’ve been instructed that it’s a system to be followed, set pieces to learnt and under no circumstances must you break the law and definitely NOT exceed speed limits.

I’m going to complete my training and hopefully pass my test but am I a supporter of IAM ... No. for me it’s a means to an end.

As a general rule that is correct-if you completed numerous overtakes (unnecessarily) exceeding the speed limit each time you would IMO fail. My understanding is that test wise Safety and legality are now combined rather than being separate.

On my car test on the motorway I was doing 70 and was closing on a number of LGVs occupying lanes 1 & 2 in front of me. Now the examiner will expect you to make progress and pass those LGVs rather than sit behind them and reduce your speed to 60mph if it was safe to do so. In lane 3 behind me was a closing Mercedes exceeding the speed limit, so using acceleration sense I reduced speed slightly allowing him to pass then moved into lane 3 and passed those LGVs above the 70 limit but not taking the piss and when clear of them returned to lane 2 and reduced my speed back down to 70. The time that you are alongside those LGVs, especially on a bike puts you in danger so exceeding the limit in that case on safety grounds was (to my examiner) perfectly acceptable, while continually speeding like the Mercedes driver was not.
 
But had you been pinged during this overtake you would still get been an award in the post for "unsafe" driving by exceeding the posted speed limit..
 
I have done both my IAM motorcycle and RoSPA test twice now and the car test once (5 months ago). Each time with either serving or ex Police Examiners. Both times I asked the question about exceeding the speed limit on test, every time, they basically said they can not condone speeding, but they wouldn't be looking at their speedos if it was necessary on a National speed limit road for safety reasons and after the overtake you dropped back to the national limit. So think different examiners have different views and interpretations of this area.
 
So think different examiners have different views and interpretations of this area.

When I did my RoSPA I was told 'do not exceed the limit' to make an overtake, where's on the IAM it was ok to exceed the limit, as long as I had dropped back before I pulled in.

Both were well known examiners.
 
I ride regularly with 'Advanced Riders' and on the whole its really good predictable riding.

BUT, my god I've seen some crap riding from Instructors, Gold and FIRST pass riders at times. From life threatening low sides, crashes, static drops, rear end bumps, dangerous overtakes, excessive speed, all sorts.

So I've just concluded the 'Advanced Riders' phrase shouldn't be used. It's not accurate.

I think 'Tactical Riders' is more suitable and stops the fucktards getting uppity about being more skilled than others without a badge.

You're applying tactics... the skills bit is highly debateable :D
 
Most of the Advanced Rider guys I know can't even do a full lock U-Turn confidently.... or an Emergency Stop.... or move their bike around without being sat on it.....
 
When I did my RoSPA I was told 'do not exceed the limit' to make an overtake, where's on the IAM it was ok to exceed the limit, as long as I had dropped back before I pulled in.

Both were well known examiners.

Exceeding the limit is breaking the law, that’s a fail surely ?
 
Exceeding the limit is breaking the law, that’s a fail surely ?

Pretty sure if I nailed it to 90 to make the overtake I would have failed, but suspect had I got to 70 on a national limit single carriageway it would have been ok. Anyway, as it happens there were no overtake opportunities during the IAM test.
 
Well it obviously isn't is it? Depends on the examiners.
And the circumstances, sitting behind a bus doing 45 in a 60 shows the examiner nothing.

If, you happen to do say 65 to get past said bus,

1) They're playing catchup, so are you 100% sure they exceeded the speed limit.

2) Their bike doesn't have a calibrated Speedo, in theory, you could be doing an indicated 60mph whilst mine shows 64, are they speeding ?

3) If you continually exceed the posted speed limit, you're either dense, taking the piss, or maybe both and deserve to fail.

4) Exceeding the speed limit is not the same as excessive speed for the conditions.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
When doing my IAM test I the car (a few years ago now), we were in town when an arctic decided he did not like my 30 mph, started to do what was an impossible overtake. I said to the tester “I assume I’m ok to accelerate to make space for him?”

He smiled and said nothing, but he did comment at the end of the test I was quick to recognise the situation. Sometimes it’s not about speed.

PS; I passed

:thumb
 


Back
Top Bottom