AF-XIED for R1200 LC

Tractors are go said:
I was being tongue in cheek.

Ultimately, unless there is independent verification before/after) then it is only subjective, it doesn't make it any less real though, does it ?

He made his selection, spent his money and is happy with the outcome, that is all that counts.

I've driven lots of tuned cars (Cosworth and 911), that in my opinion were crap, but the owner was happy.



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Some people are happy with magnet therapy, but there is no credible evidence supporting any of the medical claims for it. It relies on the user’s belief reinforced by the significant cost of it. The medical profession has actively debunked the myth and publicised the evidence to help prevent people from being hoodwinked, because it’s a scam.
 
Tractors are go;5432488[COLOR="#FF0000" said:
]I was being tongue in cheek[/COLOR].

Ultimately, unless there is independent verification before/after) then it is only subjective, it doesn't make it any less real though, does it ?

He made his selection, spent his money and is happy with the outcome, that is all that counts.

I've driven lots of tuned cars (Cosworth and 911), that in my opinion were crap, but the owner was happy.



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That for starters was bollocks and you know it, however the AF-XIEDS are just simple Fuel and air controllers that you can manually adjust, so you being such an expert on cars should understand that any adjustment to these values richer or leaner will change an engine, mine are set at 7 that equates to 14.1 on the BMW scale, so obviously there would be a difference, no I did not put it on a fancy Dyno before and after, as what is the use if the person using the Dyno is not doing the job correctly, or even worse to an expected advantage, I just went out like most guys who have been riding for years, and felt that the bike was not gasping for fuel, that is all I was looking for, no crazy speed, no wheelies, just smooth and easy, and first impressions is I have it.
 
Smogbob did your bike have the oscillating neutral throttle vibes that some get while cruising ? If it did has it gone as I have often wondered if it’s fueling or mechanical. It’s quite annoying if your in traffic for long periods in that zone.
 
Smogbob said:
That for starters was bollocks and you know it, however the AF-XIEDS are just simple Fuel and air controllers that you can manually adjust, so you being such an expert on cars should understand that any adjustment to these values richer or leaner will change an engine, mine are set at 7 that equates to 14.1 on the BMW scale, so obviously there would be a difference, no I did not put it on a fancy Dyno before and after, as what is the use if the person using the Dyno is not doing the job correctly, or even worse to an expected advantage, I just went out like most guys who have been riding for years, and felt that the bike was not gasping for fuel, that is all I was looking for, no crazy speed, no wheelies, just smooth and easy, and first impressions is I have it.
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There are lots of ways of "improving" an engines running. You went down the af route, which allows you to manually adjust within set parameters. What about say a PC is that not set up as a before/after.

Some engines do respond better than others, because they are so close to optimum there is little to be gained where are some are so bad they're anchors and it takes a lot to get it close to standard.

Whilst riden in isolation they're ok, but compared to an "identical" bike are sub optimal.

If, your af adjusts from 0% to 100% and setting 7 feels better than 6 how do you know if it is optimal at 68% if you don't do a before/after ?

I'm not knocking af, nor your choice either; just saying there are other options which others may select, that suit them.



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papasquelch said:
Some people are happy with magnet therapy, but there is no credible evidence supporting any of the medical claims for it. It relies on the user’s belief reinforced by the significant cost of it. The medical profession has actively debunked the myth and publicised the evidence to help prevent people from being hoodwinked, because it’s a scam.
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Next you'll claim homeopathy doesn't work

Would that have been same medical experts who claimed X rays didn't exist.

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Roger 04 RT said:
Didn’t see the tongue in check at first, got it.

But the technique of lambda-shifting using the Innovate LC-2 (which I like to use), AF-XIED or Knutk’s box has been independently verified to richened the Closed Loop mixture on multiple occasions and in several countries. So there’s no doubt about that. And the science that shows you get more torque at mixtures richer than 14.7 is not in doubt. Nor is lower exhaust temperature at richer than 14.7. The only thing that’s subjective is whether you as rider can feel the differences, that is to each one to determine.
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Thank you:

I understand the basic premise and it is clear it does what it says. Like any form of tuning it will be a ball park and need fine tuning to get it near optimal, for that engine, which is why dyno's exist.

Yes, some operator's have been suspected, but until it is actually proved, of gaming their figures. Personally, I have no knowledge one way or tother, and am unwilling to get into personal slagging matches.

In a recent medical study, to do with MS, patients were timed walking a set distance, the superintendent physio made this observation: if they feel that they walked quicker but the stop watch says otherwise, who was he to take that psychological belief away ?

If some "feels" that there is an improvement to their bike, does that not count, even if not empirically evidenced.

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Tractors are go said:
In a recent medical study, to do with MS, patients were timed walking a set distance, the superintendent physio made this observation: if they feel that they walked quicker but the stop watch says otherwise, who was he to take that psychological belief away ?



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A placebo improvement is never a bad thing unless you paid for something that claimed to be anything but. Then it’s fraud whether you felt there was a benefit or not. Whether your happy because you feel better anyway even if it was proven to be fake is a personal thing I guess.

Would I pay for a placebo if a sick relative felt it worked and was happier even if I knew it didn’t, probably. We’re complicated animals when it comes down to it. Don’t make it right though
 
Tractors are go said:
There are lots of ways of "improving" an engines running. You went down the af route, which allows you to manually adjust within set parameters. What about say a PC is that not set up as a before/after.

Some engines do respond better than others, because they are so close to optimum there is little to be gained where are some are so bad they're anchors and it takes a lot to get it close to standard.

Whilst riden in isolation they're ok, but compared to an "identical" bike are sub optimal.

If, your af adjusts from 0% to 100% and setting 7 feels better than 6 how do you know if it is optimal at 68% if you don't do a before/after ?

I'm not knocking af, nor your choice either; just saying there are other options which others may select, that suit them.



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Exactly but we are only talking about the BMW LC engine, not any engine of a car PC or whatever you need to divert to, I can tune other bikes quite simply with free software called Tuneecu if needed, but the BMW 1200 GS LC needs to be done through proven technology, and this one seems to tick all the simple boxes for me, I will try settings 8 and setting 6 as the days or months go along, and you can keep bashing on about I spent my money so must be happy, trust me if it was not the case, I would be the first to scream blue murder, and not just swallow my pride, that is a fact think it over.
 
spoonz said:
Smogbob did your bike have the oscillating neutral throttle vibes that some get while cruising ? If it did has it gone as I have often wondered if it’s fueling or mechanical. It’s quite annoying if your in traffic for long periods in that zone.
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Actually this I am not sure, what is the total cure, however I can say with the up and back risers helped massively with numbed right hand, basically due to bad wrist position, although I was still getting a bit of vibes it had helped, today after a 2 hour ride doing things I normally do, I could still feel a bit of vibes but a lot less as hand was fine after 2 hours, I personally think the little extra vibe that is still present may simply come from the tyres, as if you use knobblies or pure road, you can certainly feel a difference in vibes, but todays ride just felt like the bike was pulling a little stronger, not needing to go to higher gears, it was quite happy, do not get me wrong it felt ok before, but just seems that it has been tweaked with that extra fuel that was needed.
 
Smogbob said:
Exactly but we are only talking about the BMW LC engine, not any engine of a car PC or whatever you need to divert to, I can tune other bikes quite simply with free software called Tuneecu if needed, but the BMW 1200 GS LC needs to be done through proven technology, and this one seems to tick all the simple boxes for me, I will try settings 8 and setting 6 as the days or months go along, and you can keep bashing on about I spent my money so must be happy, trust me if it was not the case, I would be the first to scream blue murder, and not just swallow my pride, that is a fact think it over.
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Then, I look forward to hearing all your good reports.

Just enjoy riding your bike

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Just in from a 2 hour ride in boiling near 40C temps done motorway and some city shuffling, I must admit the difference is there, the bike pulls way better and smoother, and I felt no excessive heat, although I did have thick jeans on as always, FD was cool when I got home, once again them niggly vibes are certainly reduced, will keep on going in different times and temps, and carry on reporting.
 
Smogbob said:
Just in from a 2 hour ride in boiling near 40C temps done motorway and some city shuffling, I must admit the difference is there, the bike pulls way better and smoother, and I felt no excessive heat, although I did have thick jeans on as always, FD was cool when I got home, once again them niggly vibes are certainly reduced, will keep on going in different times and temps, and carry on reporting.
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Now that wasn't hard.

Glad that you're glad

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Tractors are go said:
Now that wasn't hard.

Glad that you're glad

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I am glad at the moment, and would be even gladder if you decided to really contribute to any thread without just sniping in daft comments, if you know nothing, just say so, it is not hard...........:blast
 
Smogbob said:
I am glad at the moment, and would be even gladder if you decided to really contribute to any thread without just sniping in daft comments, if you know nothing, just say so, it is not hard...........:blast
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Actually, I do.

Why do you think that due to a changing in fuelling that there would be a temperature change within the final drive.

Is it based on a measurement of before/after under repeatable circumstances?

I'm not doubting that your observation is incorrect, I'm only curious about your methodology.

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Tractors are go said:
Actually, I do.

Why do you think that due to a changing in fuelling that there would be a temperature change within the final drive.

Is it based on a measurement of before/after under repeatable circumstances?

I'm not doubting that your observation is incorrect, I'm only curious about your methodology.

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Final drive nothing to do with AF-XIED it was just for a gent who is following my posts, not stalking like yourself, and I thought I would just mention FD heat still not boiling hot as the poor guy has a problem with heat on FD, you really are tedious and try to fault everybody on everything yet share nothing.
 
Tractors are go said:
Actually, I do.

Why do you think that due to a changing in fuelling that there would be a temperature change within the final drive.

Is it based on a measurement of before/after under repeatable circumstances?

I'm not doubting that your observation is incorrect, I'm only curious about your methodology.

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I’m surprised by the FD comment too. Perhaps it’s the lower temp of the cat directing less heat toward the FD ...
 
Smogbob said:
Final drive nothing to do with AF-XIED it was just for a gent who is following my posts, not stalking like yourself, and I thought I would just mention FD heat still not boiling hot as the poor guy has a problem with heat on FD, you really are tedious and try to fault everybody on everything yet share nothing.
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Just to be clear, I make enquiry about a comment you've made, accepted it as accurate but question, considering how warm the ambient temperature is, if it is a consistent observation or if it could possibly be an anomaly.

Where as you doubt the veracity of anyone who has used hilltop and in their opinion felt a benefit. I have always accepted that the AF is one way of improving the fuelling, shame you are unwilling to do the same.

As I said, in good faith, I'm glad you are glad with the improvement you feel has occurred with your motorcycle.



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Tractors are go said:
Just to be clear, I make enquiry about a comment you've made, accepted it as accurate but question, considering how warm the ambient temperature is, if it is a consistent observation or if it could possibly be an anomaly.

Where as you doubt the veracity of anyone who has used hilltop and in their opinion felt a benefit. I have always accepted that the AF is one way of improving the fuelling, shame you are unwilling to do the same.

As I said, in good faith, I'm glad you are glad with the improvement you feel has occurred with your motorcycle.



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You just cannot help yourself, you are a sick man, take your meds, this is an AF-XIED thread why do you need to keep bashing on about HT, you keep waking up the HT debate, you really are not doing your friend any favours.
 
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