Rough running issue - Still not bloody sorted.....

commandoallan said:
Went back to basics as advised and found the following when reading the temps on the down pipes from the cylinder heads, used a fluke infrared thermometer so should be quite accurate?

RHS Cylinder running at 200 degrees centigrade.
LHS Cylinder running at 373 degrees centigrade.

Quite a difference at idle so may be magnified when running at speed, anyone got any further ideas with this information?

many thanks internaught!!!!!
Click to expand...

With temp values that large its clear that the RHS cylinder has a a problem ,

I'd say one or more plugs / coils / wiring has an issue or at a long shot the timing pulse needed to tell the ecu where the cam / crank and TDC is, is not correct ( i'm not sure how the timing works on a GS)
 
commandoallan said:
Went back to basics as advised and found the following when reading the temps on the down pipes from the cylinder heads, used a fluke infrared thermometer so should be quite accurate?

RHS Cylinder running at 200 degrees centigrade.
LHS Cylinder running at 373 degrees centigrade.

Quite a difference at idle so may be magnified when running at speed, anyone got any further ideas with this information?

many thanks internaught!!!!!
Click to expand...

Without going back through all the pages Did you do a compression test ?? Cold / Hot ??

The reason I ask I bought a replacement engine for my 04 1200GS and after much humming and hahhing I decided to pop the heads off to check it over
I am glad I did the Exh valves on the Right side have a totally schite seal!! I haven't finished grinding them in as there has been other stuff needing done Perhaps this is why the failures are predominantly RHS
 
Santa-2512 said:
With temp values that large its clear that the RHS cylinder has a a problem ,

I'd say one or more plugs / coils / wiring has an issue or at a long shot the timing pulse needed to tell the ecu where the cam / crank and TDC is, is not correct ( i'm not sure how the timing works on a GS)
Click to expand...

I have replaced the plugs twice and all coils so these should not be an issue, maybe one of the other items you mention requires looking at especially the wiring?
 
DrFarkoff said:
Without going back through all the pages Did you do a compression test ?? Cold / Hot ??

The reason I ask I bought a replacement engine for my 04 1200GS and after much humming and hahhing I decided to pop the heads off to check it over
I am glad I did the Exh valves on the Right side have a totally schite seal!! I haven't finished grinding them in as there has been other stuff needing done Perhaps this is why the failures are predominantly RHS
Click to expand...

No compression test either hot or cold, never done one before so will have to google it and give it a go. Not really competent to start grinding anything in the engine, and not sure if I could even id a problem in there. Any directions you could provide on exactly what to look for?
 
commandoallan said:
I have replaced the plugs twice and all coils so these should not be an issue, maybe one of the other items you mention requires looking at especially the wiring?
Click to expand...

What do the plugs look like after a long run side to side ?
 
have other's ridden it to verify if it running badly or its just a GS ?
 
botus said:
have other's ridden it to verify if it running badly or its just a GS ?
Click to expand...

My mate has previously, he has the same year GSA and said he couldn't notice anything as it has a strong motor in his opinion. I know there is something wrong as I ride it 4 hours commuting most days and the header temps seem to confirm an issue with the RHS cylinder. I just don't have the knowledge to id exactly what is wrong by riding it.
 
commandoallan said:
No compression test either hot or cold, never done one before so will have to google it and give it a go. Not really competent to start grinding anything in the engine, and not sure if I could even id a problem in there. Any directions you could provide on exactly what to look for?
Click to expand...

Basically you remove the main stick coils on both sides and unscrew the spark plug on each AND disconnect The Lower stick coil connector on both sides!!!!

You screw in a compression tester

Hold the throttle wide open and hold the starter button in for say 10 seconds

The gauge will show the cylinder pressure and there are values that indicate of you have good compression or bad

You then release the pressure in the gauge and fit it to the other cylinder and repeat the test again

If you get a huge variance between the two sides? The side with the significantly lower compression is likely to have an issue

Hope that helps
 
I had a thunk, if it was overfuelling on the rhs cylinder this would cause poor running and a temperature difference too.

You've checked spark (and say it is ok), compression tests next.



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Didn't some have trouble with the exhaust valves overheating then burning out on the rhs owing to running a little lean? Maybe hilltop or af Xied's?
 
Last edited:
DrFarkoff said:
Basically you remove the main stick coils on both sides and unscrew the spark plug on each AND disconnect The Lower stick coil connector on both sides!!!!

You screw in a compression tester

Hold the throttle wide open and hold the starter button in for say 10 seconds

The gauge will show the cylinder pressure and there are values that indicate of you have good compression or bad

You then release the pressure in the gauge and fit it to the other cylinder and repeat the test again

If you get a huge variance between the two sides? The side with the significantly lower compression is likely to have an issue

Hope that helps
Click to expand...

Thanks Doc, I'll give that a go.
 
Tractors are go said:
I had a thunk, if it was overfuelling on the rhs cylinder this would cause poor running and a temperature difference too.

You've checked spark (and say it is ok), compression tests next.



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, will do the compression test next but I still think it is an issue with electrical wiring, I will hopefully find out soon.
 
MWH said:
Didn't some have trouble with the exhaust valves overheating then burning out on the rhs owing to running a little lean? Maybe hilltop or af Xied's?
Click to expand...

Recently added a gizmo between the airbox temp sensor and the ecu to fool the ecu into delivering more fuel, cant remember what it's called but the bike did seem to run a little better although could be my imagination.

I do lean towards an electrical wiring issue of sorts as it was intermittent and I seem to have addressed all other bolt on items, the other outstanding test is to do the compression test. Hope I get an answer from that.
 
commandoallan said:
Recently added a gizmo between the airbox temp sensor and the ecu to fool the ecu into delivering more fuel, cant remember what it's called but the bike did seem to run a little better although could be my imagination.

I do lean towards an electrical wiring issue of sorts as it was intermittent and I seem to have addressed all other bolt on items, the other outstanding test is to do the compression test. Hope I get an answer from that.
Click to expand...

So any results given / diaganosis's or symptoms are null and void :blast

You need to start at zero, by adding a gizmo, your running away from standard, how can you expect to fix a fault if youve tweaked 7 shades out of it??

I was going to suggest swap the injectors side to side and see if the high low exhaust temps goes with the injectors .

But if youve got a fueling spoofer inline its going to skeew any results given.


I would suggest removing the spoofer, and then rechecking the zorst temps and seeing what you get .
 
commandoallan said:
Thanks Doc, I'll give that a go.
Click to expand...

Also borrow one of those laser thermometer things

and do temperature checks on the Exhaust headers right up by the Head

Cold

after 10 seconds

after 30 seconds

after a minute

Ride off and get the bike to working temperature and pull over and whip it out and check the header temps again

Cumulative data is great for Diagnosis

Did you disconnect Both of the lamda probes and ride the bike????

If not try that

It defaults to a base level Fuel map which errs slightly to the side of rich which the Lamda's adjust
 
Probably a booster plug. May be worth removing it and seeing what happens. I think they just tell the ecu it's 20°c colder or something similar. Read in a thread on here the fuel injection system can adapt them out. Fingers cross you find the problem! And it's a cheap fix!
 
Buy, beg, borrow or steal a GS911. Hook it up and go to real time values. Then select one of the likely areas that could be causing your fault - ONE AT A TIME and zoom in by upping the sample rate to maximum. Then look at the real time read out very carefully. Where there is a sensor each side they should be the same or opposites. Where it is a single sensor then the readout should be in line with expectations and no unexpected fluctuations or variances.

I had rough running on my 2011 GSA and eventually diagnosed the throttle position sensor using the above technique - there were the tiniest blips in the readout only visable on max zoom.

Good luck.
 
Santa-2512 said:
So any results given / diaganosis's or symptoms are null and void :blast

You need to start at zero, by adding a gizmo, your running away from standard, how can you expect to fix a fault if youve tweaked 7 shades out of it??

I was going to suggest swap the injectors side to side and see if the high low exhaust temps goes with the injectors .

But if youve got a fueling spoofer inline its going to skeew any results given.


I would suggest removing the spoofer, and then rechecking the zorst temps and seeing what you get .
Click to expand...

Hey Santa,

Not exactly, the intermittent issue was there before I fitted the spoofer and is still there after, I can dial different settings one of which is the standard setting with no temp spoof to fool the ecu but could always remove completely if required.

Yes I will redial to zero then check the zorst temps again, dont think they will change much as I still think the RHS cylinder has the issue. Now got a compression tester on order so when I receive that will give it a go.
 
DrFarkoff said:
Also borrow one of those laser thermometer things

and do temperature checks on the Exhaust headers right up by the Head

Cold

after 10 seconds

after 30 seconds

after a minute

Ride off and get the bike to working temperature and pull over and whip it out and check the header temps again

Cumulative data is great for Diagnosis

Did you disconnect Both of the lamda probes and ride the bike????

If not try that

It defaults to a base level Fuel map which errs slightly to the side of rich which the Lamda's adjust
Click to expand...

Got a laser/ infra red thermometer which has given the results so I think the RHS cylinder is running at nearly half the temp of the left. Will read temps again as per your instructions and record the results.

Will also disconnect the lambda's and see what happens (obviously with the gizmo set at zero or removed).
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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