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Schtum

Schtum

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Anyone localish to me here in NE Fife have a 650 single I could have a wee shot of?

I continue to be perplexed by the lack of performance from my G650 XCountry which I bought from a guy on the forum last year. I had it "Hilltopped" and that doesn't appear to have made a bit of difference. The power and torque figures it made and the AFR figures from this afternoon's run on the local Dynojet dyno confirm that. So I'm interested in making a comparison with another one before I give up with this engine and start investigating whether or not my ex Boorman Dakar Rally engine with a claimed 73 bhp can be successfully installed. :augie
 
I don’t suppose any local independent MC dealers have one you could take for a ‘test’ ride on the premise of a potential purchase?
 
Schtum said:
Anyone localish to me here in NE Fife have a 650 single I could have a wee shot of?

I continue to be perplexed by the lack of performance from my G650 XCountry which I bought from a guy on the forum last year. I had it "Hilltopped" and that doesn't appear to have made a bit of difference. The power and torque figures it made and the AFR figures from this afternoon's run on the local Dynojet dyno confirm that. So I'm interested in making a comparison with another one before I give up with this engine and start investigating whether or not my ex Boorman Dakar Rally engine with a claimed 73 bhp can be successfully installed. :augie
Click to expand...

How do the figures compare against a standard (claimed) G650 ? Does yours maybe just need something like a complete Akrapovic and air filter conversion to take advantage of the Hilltop ?

The Boorman lump sounds interesting :D
 
mspenz said:
How do the figures compare against a standard (claimed) G650 ? Does yours maybe just need something like a complete Akrapovic and air filter conversion to take advantage of the Hilltop ?

The Boorman lump sounds interesting :D
Click to expand...

1) 30 hp at the rear wheel vs. BMW's claimed 52 at the crank.

2) It's already got a Leo Vince can, so it's decatted. The dyno guy today said it's alread dangerously lean.

3) One of his spare engines which was never used. Built by Touratech apparently.

I sourced it on here from Rev Chuck who was (is?) a Meenister in Hawick, for a good friend of mine who used to commute dahn sarf on his F650GS. It was in the hands of the Engineering Dept at Dundee University. They wanted it to power a single seater racing car and when they finally decided it wasn't going to do, Rev Chuck advertised it on here on behalf of his son who was at Dundee Uni at the time.

My friend Robb swapped them an FZR600 engine and a sum of money for the Dakar lump. He just happened to be heading up Castrol Global Motorcycles at the time and was the guy who signed off all Castrol's motorsport sponsorship. So he had a good working relationshipe with BMW Motorrad UK at Bracknell. I think the race ECU which I now have for the engine came courtesy of them, as did a different ABS ring for the front wheel to fool the ECU into thinking there's a 21" front wheel instead of a 19. At least I think that's what it's for. Sadly the guy who provided the information and bits from BMW is no longer with us.

In the end, my friend never fitted the engine to his F650 and he's now gone to work in Oz. So when I bought the XCountry last year, I bought it from him. It's now sitting on a pallet in my garage, looking for a home. There are some apparent challenges to fitting it into the XCountry. I did think about buying a cheap Scarver and fitting it into that.

My current fantasy is fitting it into some kind of long low frame and taking it to Bonneville Speed Week. :blast
 
doyle said:
I don’t suppose any local independent MC dealers have one you could take for a ‘test’ ride on the premise of a potential purchase?
Click to expand...

I've not seen anything. I know most of the local dealerships and if I saw one I'd be upfront and tell them why I wanted to try it.
 
Schtum said:
1) 30 hp at the rear wheel vs. BMW's claimed 52 at the crank.

2) It's already got a Leo Vince can, so it's decatted. The dyno guy today said it's alread dangerously lean.

3) One of his spare engines which was never used. Built by Touratech apparently.

I sourced it on here from Rev Chuck who was (is?) a Meenister in Hawick, for a good friend of mine who used to commute dahn sarf on his F650GS. It was in the hands of the Engineering Dept at Dundee University. They wanted it to power a single seater racing car and when they finally decided it wasn't going to do, Rev Chuck advertised it on here on behalf of his son who was at Dundee Uni at the time.

My friend Robb swapped them an FZR600 engine and a sum of money for the Dakar lump. He just happened to be heading up Castrol Global Motorcycles at the time and was the guy who signed off all Castrol's motorsport sponsorship. So he had a good working relationshipe with BMW Motorrad UK at Bracknell. I think the race ECU which I now have for the engine came courtesy of them, as did a different ABS ring for the front wheel to fool the ECU into thinking there's a 21" front wheel instead of a 19. At least I think that's what it's for. Sadly the guy who provided the information and bits from BMW is no longer with us.

In the end, my friend never fitted the engine to his F650 and he's now gone to work in Oz. So when I bought the XCountry last year, I bought it from him. It's now sitting on a pallet in my garage, looking for a home. There are some apparent challenges to fitting it into the XCountry. I did think about buying a cheap Scarver and fitting it into that.

My current fantasy is fitting it into some kind of long low frame and taking it to Bonneville Speed Week. :blast
Click to expand...

I see your point.

I'd also be expecting more from the G650 motor, especially as you've had it Hilltopped...maybe worth getting back in touch with them just in case the map they used is wrong or even corrupt ?

That engine would be amazing in the right frame...KTM640 chassis :cool:
 
mspenz said:
I see your point.

I'd also be expecting more from the G650 motor, especially as you've had it Hilltopped...maybe worth getting back in touch with them just in case the map they used is wrong or even corrupt ?

That engine would be amazing in the right frame...KTM640 chassis :cool:
Click to expand...

Aye, first port of call will be Motorrad Central in Dalkeith, clutching the dyno chart. They flashed the bike with the Hilltop software. There was a problem when it was done in that the engine died immediately after it was started up. Cue much grimacing from the Service Manager and the Tech who had done the job. If I don't get anywhere with them, I'll need to speak to Hilltop. I'd already discussed it with Geoff on the phone and he'd offered to dyno the bike, as Motorrad Central don't have that facility, if I took it down there.
 
Schtum said:
Aye, first port of call will be Motorrad Central in Dalkeith, clutching the dyno chart. They flashed the bike with the Hilltop software. There was a problem when it was done in that the engine died immediately after it was started up. Cue much grimacing from the Service Manager and the Tech who had done the job. If I don't get anywhere with them, I'll need to speak to Hilltop. I'd already discussed it with Geoff on the phone and he'd offered to dyno the bike, as Motorrad Central don't have that facility, if I took it down there.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan :thumb2.

One of the few drawbacks to living up here is the easy access to certain types of technical services, understandable though as there has to be a demand in the first place.

I'm going to fit a Power Commander to my 14' KTM690 Enduro and have only just discovered that there's someone up in Cromarty who runs a Dyno :D

http://www.hmdtuning.co.uk/motorcycletuning.htm#122266243
 
Does sound like your remap has gone a bit wrong though.
 
mspenz said:
Sounds like a good plan :thumb2.

One of the few drawbacks to living up here is the easy access to certain types of technical services, understandable though as there has to be a demand in the first place.

I'm going to fit a Power Commander to my 14' KTM690 Enduro and have only just discovered that there's someone up in Cromarty who runs a Dyno :D

http://www.hmdtuning.co.uk/motorcycletuning.htm#122266243
Click to expand...

I’ve used HDM. Nice setup in the most unlikely of locations. Seem to remember he does work for guys who race at Knockhill. His son runs a microbrewery next door so they have their priorities sorted.
 
waterloo700 said:
I’ve used HDM. Nice setup in the most unlikely of locations. Seem to remember he does work for guys who race at Knockhill. His son runs a microbrewery next door so they have their priorities sorted.
Click to expand...

Bikes and beer..a winning combination :thumb2
 
So Tony, Motorrad Central's Service Manager, readily agreed to reflash my bike. I arranged it for last week and trailered the bike over in deference to the filthy weather. It took a couple of hours to remove the Hilltop software which they'd originally installed and then reflash it. For a variety of reasons I'd not ridden it since I got it back home and pushed it into the garage.

However, tonight I was again at my local dyno guy, Bob Scott Bikes in Glenrothes to have my LC dyno'd with a view to establishing how lean it really is after fitting a set of Akrapovič headers. He was itching to find out the outcome for the wee bike. So when I got back home with the GS, I took the wee bike out for a blat. Brrrr....6.5 deg on a sit up and beg bike with just a tiny flyscreen, wearing a leather jacket and jeans. Aye ok - three layers of merino underneath and my merino boxers and longjohns. :rob

The outcome appears to be that the bike has been restored to somewhere near the same power output it was making when I bought it last year and before it was Hilltoped. It'll drag itself up to an indicated 90 mph reasonably quickly with me sitting upright in the aforementioned clothing. I think I'd need to get my bum on the pillion and chin on the clocks to get BMW's claimed 105 mph. I wasn't expecting big gains from the Hilltop software and really only did it so the engine wasn't running too lean after decatting the bike with the Leo Vince exhaust can.

We're back to Motorrad Central next Friday for a recall on the bike; something to do with a chain tensioner (?) :nenau So we might need to discuss things a bit further then. The idea of fitting my Dakar Rally engine into it is moving off the back burner again......

The other good news is that the recently fitted fully floating Brembo disc is a significant upgrade to the brakes. The bike now nosedives into the tarmac at just a light application of the front brake. It'll be interesting to hear from Micky if his experiences are the same after he's fitted the one he's just ordered.
 
Schtum said:
..... It'll be interesting to hear from Micky if his experiences are the same after he's fitted the one he's just ordered.
Click to expand...

Dunno if you're expecting too much out of a mere 650 motor Mike, but my 'Hilltopped' is a cracker. Every bit as quick as my 800 up to 80mph ... after that, these days, it doesn't matter ;)

:beerjug:
 
Micky said:
Dunno if you're expecting too much out of a mere 650 motor Mike, but my 'Hilltopped' is a cracker. Every bit as quick as my 800 up to 80mph ... after that, these days, it doesn't matter ;)

:beerjug:
Click to expand...

Aye I know Mick and that was the whole point of this thread. I'm still waiting for you to get yer arse up here and ride it to tell me how it compares with yours.

It's not slow to drag itself up to 90 ish but it goes flat after that. I just remember my 250 Ducati was as fast flat out on a lot less claimed horsepower some 44 years ago and my 250 MZ would
go off the 80 mph clock on what - 21 bhp?

Anyway, I'll be interested how you find that new Brembo disc when you get it. Mine's night and day different.
 
jags said:
ny 1967 bsa barracuda 250 would show an indicated 95, mind you it didn't last long.:D
Click to expand...

Aye but that was probably a genuine 75 mph if you were lucky and as you say......a Starfire by any other name was always going to go pop if you rode it hard.
 
Schtum said:
Aye I know Mick and that was the whole point of this thread. I'm still waiting for you to get yer arse up here and ride it to tell me how it compares with yours.

It's not slow to drag itself up to 90 ish but it goes flat after that. I just remember my 250 Ducati was as fast flat out on a lot less claimed horsepower some 44 years ago and my 250 MZ would
go off the 80 mph clock on what - 21 bhp?

Anyway, I'll be interested how you find that new Brembo disc when you get it. Mine's night and day different.
Click to expand...

Methinks you might have rose tinted specs on with that thar 250 Ducati of 44 years ago :D

Don't forget that Gold Stars, Velo Thruxtons and Vincents were doing 120+ on a mere 40+ ish HP :rob

My 650 will whistle round to 85/90 and then 'go flat' too. Downhill, wind behind I've had about 109mph, but its not a 'bike for that.

Bimbling along the back lanes and twisty A and B roads is its forte ... and for me too these days :rob

I hope to be up your way after the Dent Event is over ... four or five weeks up in the Highlands and Islands of your Bonnie Scotland :D

:beerjug:
 
Micky said:
Methinks you might have rose tinted specs on with that thar 250 Ducati of 44 years ago :D

Don't forget that Gold Stars, Velo Thruxtons and Vincents were doing 120+ on a mere 40+ ish HP :rob

My 650 will whistle round to 85/90 and then 'go flat' too. Downhill, wind behind I've had about 109mph, but its not a 'bike for that.

Bimbling along the back lanes and twisty A and B roads is its forte ... and for me too these days :rob

I hope to be up your way after the Dent Event is over ... four or five weeks up in the Highlands and Islands of your Bonnie Scotland :D

:beerjug:
Click to expand...



Ducati quoted 92 mph flat out an I used to surprise RD250 Yams on it. Honest guv. I've noticed with my old Nav IV mounted on the 650, that the speedo is a bit optimistic as well.

When's Dent? Drop in if you can. I'm sure we can find you a room for the night.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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