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Thread: Insurance and Business Use for insurances if an IAM Observer?

  1. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wapping View Post
    Who says comedy is dead?
    Nail
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    So many roads...........So little time......

  2. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw3230 View Post
    Fair point ... but what is the difference between crashing into an associate and any other biker? The associate is clearly informed that he or she are riding their own ride and that they are responsible for all their decisions. I'm suggesting that as the observer has no control over the associate then the relationship between them is the same as between any two road users and as such the normal third party liability insurance will/should suffice
    You’re right, there is no difference. But my point is that when the shit hits the fan people go after what they can.
    The scenario of ‘two mates out for a ride’ could well change pretty quickly if the worst happens and someone wants/needs financial compensation.

  3. #19
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    A few years ago when tutoring for ROSPA, they provided a standard letter for the insurers, went along the lines that its a voluntary unpaid road safety xxx and xx miles a year of my riding is undertaking this role. Submitted it 4 years on the trot (after getting quotes and selecting an insurer) and each insurer came back at no extra premium, confirming it was covered under the policy.

    Would have thought IAM would have something simulator?


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  4. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrash Rider View Post
    A few years ago when tutoring for ROSPA, they provided a standard letter for the insurers, went along the lines that its a voluntary unpaid road safety xxx and xx miles a year of my riding is undertaking this role. Submitted it 4 years on the trot (after getting quotes and selecting an insurer) and each insurer came back at no extra premium, confirming it was covered under the policy.

    Would have thought IAM would have something simulator?


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    Yes they do. See post #5

  5. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrash Rider View Post
    A few years ago when tutoring for ROSPA, they provided a standard letter for the insurers, went along the lines that its a voluntary unpaid road safety xxx and xx miles a year of my riding is undertaking this role. Submitted it 4 years on the trot (after getting quotes and selecting an insurer) and each insurer came back at no extra premium, confirming it was covered under the policy.

    Would have thought IAM would have something simulator?


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    IAM Surity offer it as "standard", and IAM Roadsmart have a pro forma letter for your insurer, I think the issue is more around Insurance companies/brokers not being aware/understanding what it means.

    On the car side, IAM ROADSMART insurance covers you for injury/death U75 and only death O75.

    Despite raising this as an issue, as a large % of car obs are older than bikes, I have never got a breakdown of riskes etc, as the insurer claims commercial confidentiality.

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  6. #22
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    It looks like things are changing at IAM Surety.

    I have both my Bike and car insured with them.
    Just over a month ago I renewed the bike insurance and I was asked, as I have been every year for both bike and car, "are you still a member of the IAM?".
    Today i renewed my car insurance but this time I was asked "are you an IAM Fellow or an IAM Masters". (For those that don't know, an IAM Fellow has to be retested every 3 years, and IAM Masters every 5 years.)

    It looks like IAM members may have to have regular retesting in order to receive insurance from IAM Surety in future.

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    It looks like things are changing at IAM Surety.

    I have both my Bike and car insured with them.
    Just over a month ago I renewed the bike insurance and I was asked, as I have been every year for both bike and car, "are you still a member of the IAM?".
    Today i renewed my car insurance but this time I was asked "are you an IAM Fellow or an IAM Masters". (For those that don't know, an IAM Fellow has to be retested every 3 years, and IAM Masters every 5 years.)

    It looks like IAM members may have to have regular retesting in order to receive insurance from IAM Surety in future.
    No, just did my renewal for bike and car, was asked the same question, when I said no, they said ok and renewed my insurance. I would think there might be more discount if your a fellow. I'm also RoSPA and do get re-tested every 3 years, so it wouldn't bother me having to do the IAM test again, I actually did my bike one a second time as a warm up for my RoSPA test

  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    It looks like things are changing at IAM Surety.

    I have both my Bike and car insured with them.
    Just over a month ago I renewed the bike insurance and I was asked, as I have been every year for both bike and car, "are you still a member of the IAM?".
    Today i renewed my car insurance but this time I was asked "are you an IAM Fellow or an IAM Masters". (For those that don't know, an IAM Fellow has to be retested every 3 years, and IAM Masters every 5 years.)

    It looks like IAM members may have to have regular retesting in order to receive insurance from IAM Surety in future.
    It has more to do with the level of discount offered, as a member.

    Having 3 master's: all with different dates, they didn't care.

    The fellowship is a joke, you could pass your NO retest today, sit your fellowship tomorrow, and fail, which one is to a higher standard ?

    You've now lost that group membership, or have you ?



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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by casbar View Post
    No, just did my renewal for bike and car, was asked the same question, when I said no, they said ok and renewed my insurance. I would think there might be more discount if your a fellow. I'm also RoSPA and do get re-tested every 3 years, so it wouldn't bother me having to do the IAM test again, I actually did my bike one a second time as a warm up for my RoSPA test
    Yes, I think you maybe right, I have a Masters for the bike so it wasn't a problem.
    I took the RoSPA test as practice for doing my Senior Observer test back in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Tractors are go View Post

    The fellowship is a joke, you could pass your NO retest today, sit your fellowship tomorrow, and fail, which one is to a higher standard ?

    You've now lost that group membership, or have you ?
    Well, IIRC, for an NO test you are supposed provide a demonstration a ride that is better than a normal IAM pass, however, the actual test is longer than the demo ride for NO so is probably more testing?
    If you fail a Fellow retest I believe you have to resit and pass within a certain time to maintain your 'IAM Member' status.

  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    Yes, I think you maybe right, I have a Masters for the bike so it wasn't a problem.
    I took the RoSPA test as practice for doing my Senior Observer test back in 2010



    Well, IIRC, for an NO test you are supposed provide a demonstration a ride that is better than a normal IAM pass, however, the actual test is longer than the demo ride for NO so is probably more testing?
    If you fail a Fellow retest I believe you have to resit and pass within a certain time to maintain your 'IAM Member' status.
    True, but what about other groups that you may have ?

    You've demonstrated that you are not at the required standard, so how can you be a member (full stop).

    It is the made up as we go along that pisses me off, it is the artificialness.

    Any training that someone does, to either improve or to maintain currency is a good thing.

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  11. #27
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    Returning to the OP's topic, I find IAM Surety to be incredibly expensive, so I don't use them. They may work for you.

    I think the £100 uplift is outrageous.

    I am with Bikesure/Ageas. I told them I am an observer. They noted it down and said carry on - no additional charge.

    At the end of the day, it most definitely is not business use. And although the 'numpty-leaving-the car-park' scenario might happen, it at least as likely that a similar event would occur on the open road with a car driver. The INFORMATION phase is key ;-)

  12. #28
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    My 20 pence worth..

    I've been with IAM Surety / Cornmarket for the last couple of years and had a dual bike policy with them. They were the cheapest for me across a number of providers I took quotations from. I'd heard a lot of past criticism from fellow IAM club members who complained they could get cheaper elsewhere. I think I saw somewhere that they had made a more concerted effort to be cheaper for IAM members than perhaps they had previously so maybe my timing was lucky.

    I haven't taken advantage of the free business cover for observing although I did intend to at some point. I work for my own business and liked being able to take my bike to various work related locations and understood that I need business use for that although I don't agree with it. Riding the bike is riding the bike and commuting is commuting. The fact that it might be a different location from time to time is I think just a con although someone more knowledgeable than me might put me right.

    Like another poster, I was asked whether I was still a member of the IAM and I'd recently decided not to bother as I wasn't going to be able to find the time to do observing so I said no. I was immediately told that I was no longer eligible for the free business cover and would need to pay if I wanted to commute to more than one fixed location. They did say that I was also no longer eligible to the discount for being a member but they were willing to overlook that and offer me the same for renewal. This renewal would be for my recently acquired GS which would also incur a compulsory excess of £500 which I hadn't had previously. I found Hastings Direct to be more competitive with an excess of £250 as well.

    The IAM are introducing regular retesting which I don't think is a bad thing but I think it's voluntary. It may well be the case that having a retest will become a condition of IAM discount in future or perhaps it might become tiered? Seems fair enough to me. Re-testing is a requirement for Observing anyway I think. I read with interest the points about Observing not requiring Business cover and I think that compares with multiple commute locations. There is more frequent riding involved if you commute to multiple locations in the same day which I don't but then you don't pay extra if you are retired and have more time on your hands (or do you?) which also involves more frequent riding. It just seems like a lame excuse to charge you for business use with the worry of potentially not being covered as a big incentive to take it out. Where I asked for a quotation to include business use, it was consistently much more expensive so I stopped asking.

    I contacted IAM Surety for a revised quotation after finding a more competitive one and they came down a little but couldn't meet my expectation and refused to budge so I went with Hastings Direct. FWIW, I was contacted multiple times in the 48 hours up to my renewal time by IAM Surety with a promise of further reductions so read into that what you will.

    I think if I did want to do observing in the future, I would be inclined to NOT pay extra for business use but I would want specific confirmation from the insurer that observing as defined by the IAM's definition (ie use their letter) was covered under the main terms of the policy so that there was no wriggle room in the event of a claim.

    As a side point along the same lines, I was horrified to read evidence that answering yes to the 'Thatcham approved alarm system' question for a BMW alarm system could also get you into trouble as it is NOT approved by Thatcham (that's a complete other story and no reflection at all on the quality thereof). It seems to me that the 'questions' asked are becoming increasingly more of a minefield that only has any real relevance once a claim is submitted. The more cynical might suggest that this is deliberate.

  13. #29

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    I know it's not the same but when I did blood bike stuff, I checked with my insurance and, as it was unpaid voluntary shit, they would not charge anything extra for covering it.

    Don't know if it makes any difference but I'm fully comp and include commuting etc but not business use.

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