Top box remove key barrel

NeilH · May 19, 2019

This is referring to the standard BMW top box and panniers NOT the police ones.

After two days of attempting to remove the key barrel in a 2nd hand BMW large top box, it seem I have to resort to taking it apart.

The barrel is encased in some sort of plastic case. Attempts to push down the locking pin either externally via the small inspection hole or directly via key hole have failed and I have run out of patience.

The top box lid is open but the base is locked.

I've removed all the screws from inside but I can't lift in inner shell out and I don't know why.

It could be the locking feet or just that I'm not applying enough force.

I managed to strip both panniers and get them working but the top box is killing me.

How do I get the inner shell out?
The handle is in the locked position.

Neil

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milleplod · May 19, 2019

I spent a day or so trying to get the lock out of my 28ltr topbox - despite being sent BMW's diagram showing the correct dimensions for a wire tool, I just couldn't get the pin to disengage with it. Then I had a brainwave - I filed the end of my gadget to a point....second attempt with that little mod and it worked, obviously it's a very small hole that your tool needs to go into.....!

Worth a try?.....unless you've already tried it, in which case....sorry!

Pete

NeilH · May 19, 2019

Pete, if it's anything like the panniers the locking pin was really tight, after I stripped them and recoded the barrels and applied lots of oil they are now function.

I have used penetration oil and tried various metal wires, and practice on a spare barrel and the tool works, just not when I need it to!

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milleplod · May 19, 2019

Hmmmm. I'm assuming that, since you managed the panniers, you'll have had the key in the lock and the lock in the locked position when trying to depress the pin?

NeilH · May 19, 2019

I don't have a correctly coded key for the top box yet, hence I need to remove the barrel.

The locking pin is encased in a plastic surround and inaccessible from prodding around.

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NeilH · May 19, 2019

The panniers where totally unlocked.

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steadysteve · May 19, 2019

Neil, firstly the lock MUST be in the locked position, with the lid open, to allow access to the little hole in the side of the barrel.

Secondly , the inner liner has more fasteners under the handle.... Sorry. That's why it wont pop out. They come out easy once all the fasterners are undone.

They are a complete pig to strip completely, not for the faint hearted..

If the lock isnt in the locked position you could force it round with another bmw key into the 'release' position or 'open' position, -- not pretty but it will work and allow you to get access to the release hole on the side of the barrel, or allow access to the other fasteners, depending how you want to proceed.

Its a good idea to have a key in the lock while trying to release the locking wafer because it will not pop out of its own accord. A bit of movement on the barrel does help the wire to hit the hole and also slight outward pressure on the key pulls the barrel out when it does release,.... at which point you say "haha got you ya little bastard".

Happy to have a go at it if you want to post it to me-- done a few over the years

NeilH · May 19, 2019

I can't get the barrel to move at all with a key, even by force.

I don't have any pictures of the internals to fabricate a wire to trip an unlock as basically I'm acting blind. I was lucky that the kid was actually open in the first place.

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steadysteve · May 19, 2019

Pics

Here ya go.
Pic of my wire thingy and a picture of the plastic housing it slots into. Just one of many bits in the lock housing, including a big inch diameter spring and 3 or 4 other bits.. work of the devil.

Last pic shows the barrel and it's housing. In the picture they are orientated in the LOCKED position. Obviously the barrel would be inside the housing. The hole lines up with the release wafer( furthest from the keyhole). Imagine the lock turned 90° ( OPEN position) and the hole wouldn't line up with the wafer.. There is only one access hole. I think it's some sort of security measure-- you have to have the original key to start the process.

Wire is 1 mm diameter. I have heard of paperclips being used-- okay on barrels that are nice and free but the stiffer the better, oooh errr, on older locks.
There is a ridge on the side of the barrel housing, visible if you shine a torch down through the top access hole-- the wire needs to be just below the ridge.

NeilH · May 19, 2019

Nice pics, i'll have another bash at it tomorrow and try and fabricate a similar tool.

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NeilH · May 20, 2019

Under the flap there are two lower bolts and slightly higher two nuts, if I undo those will the inner section come out?

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=412087&stc=1&d=1558361852

steadysteve · May 20, 2019

NeilH said:
Under the flap there are two lower bolts and slightly higher two nuts, if I undo those will the inner section come out?

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=412087&stc=1&d=1558361852

Just the two top nuts, if memory serves. The other two studs allow the handle to be removed.
There are two little screws that go into the back of the lock housing, easy to miss. Also i think there are two on the top flat edge of the box.
Cover that latch hole when you re-assemble it-- Sods Law says the nuts drop into it when you dont get them on the threads properly..
Also, if you do have to remove the handle piece its a good idea to mark the two halves of the ratchet teeth to ensure you get them back in the same place. One tooth either way would make the box loose or too tight on the rack. Its a very coarse ratchet so not difficult to get it right.
Remove the inner liner slowly and have a good look at how it all goes together.

I'm guessing it hasnt been fitted to your bike yet..? If it is too tight or too loose when you refit it to the bike its just a case of removing the two nuts and moving the ratchet teeth one way or the other, relative to each other--moving the handle nearer the vertical will tighten it on the rack . You might be able to gain enough slack between the teeth without removing the nuts completely.

NeilH · May 21, 2019

At last the top box is apart, I don't believe I could have ever removed the barrel with getting at the mechanism.

The lock is totally messed up, I can't even remove the pins, even with the lick pin removed.

It took fair force to get the locking pin down with a small flat screwdriver and even then stuck in the plastic surround. Eventually resorted to a hammer and gently tapped it out.

I'll hopefully reassemble the lock mechanism tomorrow with another barrel.

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dr nosh · May 21, 2019

Is that swarf in between the wafers?

NeilH · May 22, 2019

There is defiantly swarf between the wafers. Lock is in the bin!

So now we start to put together another barrel, all coded and in place.....with the nice small hole above the locking wafer

Before I reassemble the whole box testing the lock is an obvious thing to do......but I'm not happy. The release works 100%, beautiful perfect but the open is not good.

When you press push to open the part of the left should slide partly into the part on the right and then when you let go release. But the part on the left sticks, it's a really tight fit like good quality Lego bricks.

The order of assembly.

Number 2 goes into number 1, the extruding part goes out the opposite side to the slot facing us
Number 3 goes onto number 2 and can only go on in 1 orientation
Number 4 goes on the top of number 3 and takes advantage of the slot facing us shown on number 1.
Next goes the sprint which locates into a little slot on the base of number 4
Number 6 would go next followed by the 'cap'

The small black piece behind the sprint slots into number 6 and locks with a mounting point on the cap (not shown)

Do I sand down part number 3 to slide smoothly into part 6.......or did I miss something?

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=412289&stc=1&d=1558538559

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=412291&stc=1&d=1558539247

steadysteve · May 22, 2019

Sorry Neil-- cant give a definitive answer and i don't have a complete lock mech to check. I don't think sanding down any parts is the way to go as I don't recall any bits being a tight fit , certainly not tight enough to need sanding.

mpgscott · May 25, 2019

Are panniers much the same process? Got an RT and might need to recode the locks.

NeilH · May 25, 2019

Panniers are easy to take apart and get the locks out if you don't want to pick the locking pin.

Easy to put it all back as well. Re-code lock is simple unless you have the other lock type where you have to pop of the lock cap and remove the pin that locks the wafers.

If it's the latter lock type you need a very fine screwdriver to help pry of the cap.

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steadysteve · May 25, 2019

mpgscott said:
Are panniers much the same process? Got an RT and might need to recode the locks.

You still need the pannier open with the lock in the locked position to give access to the little hole to release the lock wafer

mpgscott · May 26, 2019

Thanks, yes still have the original key so can open them, just might recode.

Top box remove key barrel

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