Overly firm ESA....

Morning all

I’ve now done about 300 miles on my 1200GS, mainly in ‘comfort’ mode and one thing that is bothering me is that the suspension feels really firm, irrespective of whether I’m in sport/norm/comfort on the dash.

The rear definitely rises when cycling through them stationary, so I’m assuming it’s something else to do with compression/rebound damping.

It feels like the compression and rebound damping is too high. I was expecting a super-plush ride but instead I can feel every bump in the road.

If it helps I’m not-quite-16st....

Any suggestions from the collective? It’s probably just me not working out how to fiddle the bouncy bits correctly yet!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BMW bikes (like virtually all manufactures have very cheap, nasty quality shocks) they created ESA to mask how nasty they really are. Blame the accountants. And then our roads are so bad even a set of 1500 Ohlins each end will struggle

I would be very surprised if it had too much damping. Harsh damping is more the BMW style lacking any compliance.

a few things to consider

At 16 stone plus riding gear (+110kg) you need stiffer springs, most bikes are only set for a 70kg rider. Winding on preload to try to compensate for the wrong spring only makes it harsher and the weak damping struggles even more.

Tyre type, many tyres are rather rubbish, the original Metzeler tourance on my 2008 GS were made of concrete and bounced off cats eyes so it would skip 18" this way all day long if you tagged one. A change to quality road tyres (Dunlop RS3) and I can hit cats eyes with no issues at all. Ride comfort was the best with a bridgestone road tyre.

Tyre pressures, if you ride slowly unladen, try a few PSI down from recco pressures, it can help a lot.

Have you got your ESA in the correct load setting, One crash helmet showing for just you with no luggage. Any more and its harsher.

Rider modes impact things, sport is firmer than comfort etc. Try to decipher an almost unintelligible user manual

Latest LC bikes (from 2018 MY with all rider modes) in dynamic mode (dongle fitted under the seat) has an active setting. If you ride like you stole it they get firmer and firmer till they over do it.


As std. the shocks are cheap and harsh (electronics can't fix poor quality). The fix is to buy aftermarket, quality shocks. Set up well, they are much plusher with smooth well damped long travel movement. They will transform a bike from a shuddering wreck to a plush magic carpet. The WP three way damping shock on my bike is the first time I ever tried an aftermarket shock on any bike. The difference is more than I believed possible. I've had ESA on K1300GT no front damping and fork flex, and on a GS LC, where you had to swap to comfort below 40 mph and sport at anything faster all the time...

Jut back from a long test ride on the ‘19 K1600GT. What a lovely smooth and pacy engine, superb quick-shifter, nicely laid out cockpit, comfy seats. All let down by utterly appalling suspension that’s either bouncy bouncy (Road mode) or rock hard (Dynamic mode). My ST1300 with M shock and Ktech has better road control than that thing.

What a complete shame.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Can anything be done with the 1200 BMW shocks by professionals? Different springs perhaps?

I don’t really want to lose the ESA if it means another warning light stays on on the dash!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Over time shocks lose their performance. Gas escapes and oil degrades. It may just need to be serviced

Cheers Nic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bikermike1411 said:

Can anything be done with the 1200 BMW shocks by professionals? Different springs perhaps?

I don’t really want to lose the ESA if it means another warning light stays on on the dash!

Click to expand...

Wilbers ESA - http://wilberssuspension.co.uk/wilbersesa.php

I find my Non ESA Suspension to be quite plush to be honest.
It copes with our less than ideal Lincolnshire "Farm Tracks" with ease.
The Front is perhaps a little hard but the Rear is fine...

Nin said:

Jut back from a long test ride on the ‘19 K1600GT. What a lovely smooth and pacy engine, superb quick-shifter, nicely laid out cockpit, comfy seats. All let down by utterly appalling suspension that’s either bouncy bouncy (Road mode) or rock hard (Dynamic mode). My ST1300 with M shock and Ktech has better road control than that thing.

Click to expand...

funny enough so did I and yes, Road bounces about and is inadequate and unusable and Dynamic overall was a bit firm. Was Ok on most roads, then on one 60mph road that should have been smooth is was very strange and pretty appalling. Overall far better than I expected... and adult cruise any gear, any speed like it should be. Gutless bike though, far too slow for the price.

If the shock is not responding to the rebound settings change picture 1 showing stepper motor responsible for rebound dumping.
The truth is them shocks are not that bad at all they may be valved badly but the cunstruction of the shock is quite good
I have rebuild lots of them shocks and now I'm going into revalving...
This should be done after changing the characteristic of the spring or to generally improve the shock.
Right now I don't have proper dyno to test the shocks after revalving piston so the only way is to check it on the road,but that soon will change.
Going back to stepper motor this can be checked by plugging gs911 or Obdlink LX
and going to calibrate ESA
Can also be checked on the bench if you have the right tools
SHOWA SHOCK Comes with PROGRESIVE DUMPING PISTON! Witch means more dumping force if the suspension compressed beyond 70% (picture 2)
HYPERPRO springs can be fitted this gives you less static sug
There is another option K-Tech spring 150*Nm 110 kg ride rated
Standard spring is made for ~85kg rider
Sonn I will be making my own custom shock bumper from different stiffness polyurethane.
IF ANYONE FROM THE FORUM NEEDS HELP I'M HERE TO HELP.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

That's very interesting. I'm very impressed with the esa on my 2012 but as I'm a heavier rider I feel I have to much sag on the rear. Hence the bike rides better with 2 helmets displayed. The soft normal and sport really make a noticeable difference. On a loaded ride through Scotland in sport it was still to soft in the twisty bits but its not a sports bike! Fantastic bit of kit in my opinion

Ok so could you tune a set of shocks to suit, and get the three different damping pre-sets to suit me as well?

If you could then I’d think again about the K1600.

Nin


Sorry BikerMike - I completely crashed your thread with talk of road touring bikes! I’ll continue by PM with Denso

The problem i see and I may be wrong. But it's always going to be a compromise. It's a long travel adventure bike. Not a sports bike not a tourer not an mx bike. If you want it to be soft enough for green lanes or touring I can't see the range of adjustment will be enough to make it firm for cornering and I feel my 2012 is amazing in the corners! Improvements can always be made. I'm from sports bike back ground I love my adv it's the best bike I've owned. It's like my favourite arm chair!

my WP with 175nm spring is fantastic, a million miles from anything BMW ever thought of... sometimes I think its too soft, but for our roads and all riding conditions its pretty amazing.
then u get on a fireblade and realise it has no rear suspension at all but somehow for the type of bike it still works. When you back on the GS it like playing on a waterbed.

DenzO, the motoscan app does ESA calibration now (since Oct 2018), nice info in your post by the way

Yep definitely how I feel I have a track prep fireblade and that feels solid in comparison.

There is a chapter in Lee Parks's "Total Control" about suspension that is excellent. The book is great in general, but the suspension chapter really helped me sort my bikes out

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760343446

Nin said:

Sorry BikerMike - I completely crashed your thread with talk of road touring bikes! I’ll continue by PM with Denso

Click to expand...

It’s fine bud! I love reading this stuff.

Years ago I spent a day out on the A515 dialling my GSXR1000K1, armed with a spanner, an allen key and flat blade screwdriver. When I sold it the bloke who bought it rang me up when he got home and asked if it had been set up by k-tech...

Suspension isn’t tricky if you know what you’re doing. My issue with the ESA is that I can’t independently set preload, rebound and compression (at least not that I can see). I understand that no degree of fiddling can improve budget bouncers...and I’ve never stepped into the world of bespoke springs.

Would anyone recommend taking it to a specialist for a chat as a starting point? And if so...who?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheers! When I got my 1290 SA-R i took it to Mark at MH Suspension near Chippenham. On his advice I got a heavier rated spring made that he fitted, then set up front and rear preload and damping for me. The difference was night and day.

SInce then I’ve managed to fettle my Pan European myself, again what a massive difference. It does make me picky now though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Bikermike1411 said:

Would anyone recommend taking it to a specialist for a chat as a starting point? And if so...who?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

MCT always get great reviews. Bit of a trek to Stowmarket mind.
Have to say this is why I’ll only consider an older 1200 with std shocks. Having had a TC with ESA, I’d rather pay a bit less and put the savings towards an MCT setup.

Wilbers

Hello folks,
not wishing to hi-jack a thread, just a side note regarding Wilbers suspension. If you have a failure of their shocks in the warranty period, and you have not had it serviced by them (or approved agent) annually, they will not honour the warranty. Recent experience with an 1150 gsa rear shock failing.