Insured Warranty question on 2013 Bike

I would be interested in comments or advice on the following situation.

TL;DR: Bike recovered to dealer. Dealer finds problem in cam chain tensioner. Not covered by warranty. Also requires new rear brake disc because too thin after only 8000 miles. What to do?

I have April 2013 1200GS TE model. Only 8000 miles (very low mileage because I had to start working overseas shortly after purchase). It has been dealer serviced annually and I have maintained BMW Insured Warranty. It was last used regularly (most days) on a short commute (~8 miles each way) between July 2018 and March 2019 with no issues. Had a trip and came back in April. Bike always left under cover, in driveway, with CTek battery tender. Had one run with no problem. Came back late May and bike wouldn’t start - no crank. Got a new AGM battery. Now would crank but would not start (like cranking for a minute or so). Had to go to work and returned in early June to the same problem - cranked but would not start.

I called the roadside assistance as part of the warranty. They sent an engineer to assess the problem. When he tried, the bike started first time, which was embarrassing! But after starting there was clearly a wrong noise from the engine. He decided this was serious and recovered to dealer (in Battersea) for investigation.

Service manager calls and initially asks for 4 hours labour authorisation for investigation, payable under warranty if warranty claim. I ask for annual service to be done as well. They will check the whole bike.

He calls back this morning. The wrong noise was due to a stuck hydraulic tensioner (not sure I got this right). They will need to replace this (about £185, but they have only used 1.5 hours so far) and it is not covered under the warranty. The warranty is ‘named components’ and this is not a named component. Additionally the rear disk brake thickness is below tolerance and should be replaced. The rear disk pads are 50% worn. They recommend immediate replacement but it could wait for pad replacement.

So I check the warranty (page 17 for those interested) and it gives:

Engine
All internally lubricated components, including the following:
Failure of the following parts: [stuff], timing gears and chain, [stuff].

As I see it the tensioner must be part of the chain as the chain cannot work without it. But is it a wearable or consumable part?


Also the brake disk - is there a known problem? Given low mileage and that I’m riding on the original pads which are only 50% worn, this doesn’t seem reasonable. I don’t really use rear brake alone, and I don’t think my toes are resting on the brake either. I’m inclined to leave this until the pads need a change - at my rate it could be a couple of years.

Are we looking at the same wording of the insured warranty, which (the copy I found on the internet) says:

BMW Motorrad Insured Warranty covers all of the mechanical and electrical components outlined below.

Please note that any components not specifically listed are not covered.

The claim limit for BMW Motorrad Insured Warranty is up to the market value of the insured motocycle at the time of claim or up to a maximum £1,000, whichever is greater, inclusive of VAT.

Engine

All internally lubricated components, including but not limited to the following:

Failure of the following internal parts: starter ring gear, oil pump, timing gears and chains, tappet gears, pistons and rings, con rods, flywheel, crankshaft and bearings, camshaft and cam followers, valves and guides, cylinder head, cylinder block, balancer shafts and all internal bushings.

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I guess we are?

Is the piece you are talking about listed? Yes or no? Never mind if it’s a no, as the list for the engine components is defined as ‘including but not limited to’, so let’s move on.

Is the piece ‘internally lubricated’? Yes or no? Given that the hydraulic pressure of the tensioner is generated oil and nothing else, I’d at least try to argue that it is, though it’s not a particularly convincing case.

This video explains pretty well how the tensioner works and why the tensioners wear out. I might suggest that the bike’s lack of use caused the tensioner to seize.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lK1XtUJ2KbI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Go to a good independent mechanic and ask them to replace it. Or look on line for instructions on how to deal with it yourself.

BMW know how to please customers.

If they have to replace a moving part at 8k miles then this has failed and should be covered? Especially as it has extended warranty.
Has the part stuck due to lack of use? Does the owners manual state that the bike cannot be left for periods of time?

rivercatch said:

Also the brake disk - is there a known problem? Given low mileage and that I’m riding on the original pads which are only 50% worn, this doesn’t seem reasonable. I don’t really use rear brake alone, and I don’t think my toes are resting on the brake either. I’m inclined to leave this until the pads need a change - at my rate it could be a couple of years.

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Ahh but you see.... You probably are using the rear brake alone much of the time. Using the front brake lever, the semi-linked system applies the rear brake before the front one to aid stability. If you don't apply the front brake fairly firmly, it won't come into effect at all and you will only be applying the rear. I had the rear pads on my 2013 LC replaced at 3K miles.

Schtum said:

Ahh but you see.... You probably are using the rear brake alone much of the time. Using the front brake lever, the semi-linked system applies the rear brake before the front one to aid stability. If you don't apply the front brake fairly firmly, it won't come into effect at all and you will only be applying the rear. I had the rear pads on my 2013 LC replaced at 3K miles.

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But surely it should be 2 (or more) sets of pads before the disc needs replacing and not 2 discs per set of pads

My 2014 LC went through 4 sets of rear pads but was still on the original front pads!


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rossi46 said:

But surely it should be 2 (or more) sets of pads before the disc needs replacing and not 2 discs per set of pads

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You may think that but it's not how it is. It may be that the dealership is being overly conservative about the wear limit on the rear disc. Find out what the service limit on the rear disc is and measure the one on the bike with a vernier caliper to see if it genuinely is worn below spec.

I would ask for a second opinion, to wear down a disc with only using half a set of pads is ridiculous,

Just soak in freeing oil the tensioner and coat with engine oil and refit,

I smell a rip off here, My local Toyota dealer said my Hiace needed new bottom swinging arm joints at 20k, why i asked, because of pot holes came the reply, i declined the £360 offer to remove joints, at an MOT station a month later i was told they were ok, 85.000 miles and 8 years and they are still perfect. rip off merchants.

Ged

Wapping said:

Are we looking at the same wording of the insured warranty, which (the copy I found on the internet) says:



I guess we are?

Is the piece you are talking about listed? Yes or no? Never mind if it’s a no, as the list for the engine components is defined as ‘including but not limited to’, so let’s move on.

Is the piece ‘internally lubricated’? Yes or no? Given that the hydraulic pressure of the tensioner is generated oil and nothing else, I’d at least try to argue that it is, though it’s not a particularly convincing case.

This video explains pretty well how the tensioner works and why the tensioners wear out. I might suggest that the bike’s lack of use caused the tensioner to seize.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lK1XtUJ2KbI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Go to a good independent mechanic and ask them to replace it. Or look on line for instructions on how to deal with it yourself.

Click to expand...

Hopefully, you can clarify this.

This warranty is just an insurance policy, and if so is covered by Ombudsman rulings and Insurance Code of Practice and EU legislation.

If this is right; as I understood it if it is not specifically excluded it is deemed to be included.

Or have I misunderstood the position?

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Look at the words of the policy:

https://www.motorrad-warranty.co.uk/Warranty#_WarrantyDetails

The emphasised words are mine.

BMW Motorrad Insured Warranty covers all of the mechanical and electrical components outlined below.

Please note that any components not specifically listed are not covered.

The claim limit for BMW Motorrad Insured Warranty is up to the market value of the insured motocycle at the time of claim or up to a maximum £1,000, whichever is greater, inclusive of VAT.

Braking System
Failure of the following parts: brake callipers, ABS control unit, master cylinders and ABS hydraulic pump unit. (Seized callipers due to corrosion are not covered).

Casings
Casings are covered when damaged by the failure of an insured component.

Cooling System
Failure of the radiator (excluding damage, clogging and/or sedimentation blockage), water pump, thermostat and housing.

Clutch
Failure of the following parts: master cylinder, slave cylinder, clutch plate, plate housing cover, thrust bearing including oil contamination of the clutch plate, but excluding external linkages, burnt out parts and general wear and tear.

Drive
All internally lubricated components, including but not limited to the following:

Failure of the following parts: gears, shafts, bearings and bushes, universal joints, but excluding hubs, chains, sprockets and rubber boots.

Electrical System
Failure of the following parts: all electrical control units, on board computer and starter motor, starter relay/module, alternator, voltage regulator, cooling fan motor, ignition coil, wiring loom, lambda probe, fuel level circuit boards and sender units, ABS control unit, ABS hydraulic pump and ABS wheel sensors (excluding damage), immobiliser antenna. CD player, radio, engine temperature transmitter and coolant temperature transmitter. Cruise control motor, reverse gear module and actuator. Electric screen motor, main stand motor, electronic suspension adjustment motors.

Engine

All internally lubricated components, including but not limited to the following:

Failure of the following internal parts: starter ring gear, oil pump, timing gears and chains, tappet gears, pistons and rings, con rods, flywheel, crankshaft and bearings, camshaft and cam followers, valves and guides, cylinder head, cylinder block, balancer shafts and all internal bushings.

Final drive
All internally lubricated components, including but not limited to the following:

Failure of the following parts: crown wheel, pinion and bearings. Pinion shaft oil seal and crown wheel cover seal, rear wheel carrier.

Frames
Failure of the structured members but excluding failure by corrosion or accident damage.

Fuel System
Failure of the following parts: injection control unit, fuel injectors, fuel level transmitter, fuel pressure regulator, carburettor, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, solenoids, idle control valve, throttle position potentiometer.

Gearbox
All internally lubricated components, including but not limited to the following:

Failure of the following internal parts: gears, selectors, selector forks and drums, bearings and bushes, synchromesh, hubs and shafts, excluding external linkages.

Instruments
Failure of the following parts: speedometer, gear indicators, voltmeter, fuel gauge, temperature gauge, tachometer and clock, but excluding accident damage.

Seals and Gaskets
Failure of the following: engine - rear main oil seal, front crankshaft seal, output shaft seal, cylinder head gasket and valve guide oil seals. Gearbox - input shaft seal, output shaft seal and clutch push rod seal. Rear axle - pinion oil seal.

Steering
Failure of the following parts: steering head bearings, Telelever ball joints, steering damper, solid and roller bearings including wheel bearings and seals.

Sundries
Working materials e.g. oils, filters, antifreeze are claimable as a direct result of a valid claim providing the insured motorcycle is not within 1,000 miles of its next scheduled service.

Suspension
Failure of the following parts: Telelever ball joints, telescopic forks (excluding pitting) and seals. Front and rear shock absorber units (up to 30,000 miles only).

Miscellaneous
Other than the oil seals and gaskets specifically listed above, the rectification of oil leaks is not covered and the cost of seals and gaskets will only be accepted where they are required as a direct consequence of a valid claim under the insurance. Any components not specifically listed are not covered.




The insurer has listed (very clearly) what is covered. By default, anything that is not listed is therefore definitely excluded. What the insurer has been very careful to do is (with the exception of the clutch section for example) is not to produce a policy which is nothing but listed exclusions, leaving everything else covered by default. They have done the reverse.

Of course anyone is free to argue the toss, no matter what. So let’s take a look at that.

The hydraulic cam chain tensioner device / component is not listed, therefore by default it is not covered. Whether it arguably forms a part of the cam chain (a chain is a chain, not a hydraulic device) or a part of a timing wheel (which it isn’t) is open to debate but either it’s a hydraulic device or it isn’t; I’d suggest that it is definitely nothing more than a very specific component, whose sole purpose is to apply even pressure to a slipper to keep a chain at a correct tension, nothing more, nothing less. Had the hydraulic component been damaged if the chain had snapped, it doubtless would have been covered, as would have been any damage to the valves or even the inside of the engine cases. But the chain did not snap in this example, so the argument fails.

That simple fact just leaves a debate as to what ‘All internally lubricated components’ means in relation to something that is not listed. Might it fall under the ‘... but not limited to’ bit? The insurer might argue that a hydraulic system - where oil is compressed to make pressure only - is not an internal lubrication process at all and they may well be right.

In short, it’s a low mileage (it’s not BMW’s fault the bod didn’t ride it) bike, several years out of the original warranty; where an original warranty is not insurance backed. So, the customer is now stuck with what is specifically listed as included. It’s worth a debate in the dealership for sure, not least as you might get some goodwill gesture. Next time, snap the chain!

PS If the dealership just gives in in two minutes, agreeing to cover the cost of replacing the hydraulic comment, just shut up and say no more. Don’t whinge on that they could have said that the first time around.... they might just change their mind.

Thanks for all the comments, very useful for me. Especially the video link - very informative.

As Wapping has analyzed, it seems to come down to the wording of the policy. I have to speak to the "Warranties manager" at the dealer - I didn't know they existed.

I'm not going to whine about it or die in a ditch over it. This is the first major bill other than servicing that I have had on this bike, so, compared to other stories I have read here, I'm quite lucky.

But a couple of technical points to check please:

• Two cam shafts per cylinder, but only one chain, yes?
• One tensioner per chain, yes?
• If vou are replacing one tensioner, would you do the other at the same time?

Thanks

rivercatch said:

If vou are replacing one tensioner, would you do the other at the same time?

Click to expand...

On the other cylinder I mean!

If it’s stuck, maybe from the layup time probably not but if it’s wear related, yes.