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Thread: Outfit lesson

  1. #1
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    Outfit lesson

    You know the scenario you go one of the big manufacturers off road riding skills courses and you are a Dakar legend.

    Does anyone know of a similar thing for trying out or having riding lessons for an outfit.

    i have fancied one for a long time, especially now I have kids, think it would be fun going to school and using for my job.......but due to a mate half scaring me to death with his tales of near misses (trying one out in a car park) and a seasoned world traveller nearly killing himself. I don’t just want to buy one and get on with it and don’t know anyone who has one. So any advice would be appreciated.

    cheers Simon

  2. #2
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    At one point Watsonian Squire used to do this. I last spoke to them about it 2-3 years ago.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

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    I bought one about10 years ago in Island Magee R100/7 adult and 2 children mini caravan attached to the side. Got on it rode 100 miles or so home. Rode it a good bit round and about. Towed a trailer with it. Never had a problem. She would shake the bars a bit on take off but after that was grand. Had it up to 70. You just do the natural thing without thinking. JJH

  4. #4
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    There’s an English couple who run Classic Bike Esprit in Saint Rémy de Provence

    http://www.cbesprit.com/

    They do sidecar training if you fancy a holiday

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    You know the scenario you go one of the big manufacturers off road riding skills courses and you are a Dakar legend.

    Does anyone know of a similar thing for trying out or having riding lessons for an outfit.

    i have fancied one for a long time, especially now I have kids, think it would be fun going to school and using for my job.......but due to a mate half scaring me to death with his tales of near misses (trying one out in a car park) and a seasoned world traveller nearly killing himself. I don’t just want to buy one and get on with it and don’t know anyone who has one. So any advice would be appreciated.

    cheers Simon
    If you were nearer to me in Dorset,I would be able to help,I've been driving outfits since 1968. However; Len Tempest is a bit closer to you, 07831 778083 or by e-mail at len_tempest@msn.com.

    By the way,you DRIVE,not ride, a sidecar outfit.

  6. #6
    le jeu des treize Click here to find out how to Subscribe
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    I may fit a chair in the future and always wondered if it's better to fit leading link forks.
    You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time,
    but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brut33 View Post
    I may fit a chair in the future and always wondered if it's better to fit leading link forks.
    Absolutely yes.
    Huic ipso mundo ego odi

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    You know the scenario you go one of the big manufacturers off road riding skills courses and you are a Dakar legend.

    Does anyone know of a similar thing for trying out or having riding lessons for an outfit.

    i have fancied one for a long time, especially now I have kids, think it would be fun going to school and using for my job.......but due to a mate half scaring me to death with his tales of near misses (trying one out in a car park) and a seasoned world traveller nearly killing himself. I don’t just want to buy one and get on with it and don’t know anyone who has one. So any advice would be appreciated.

    cheers Simon
    If you can manage to come to me some time I'll happily teach you on one of my Urals.
    Over two days would be better than one though.
    I've a spare room you can stay in, just buy my food and wine for me.
    If you can host me I may be able to get to you instead.

    Mick at the former MPC Ural near Lutterworth does training although it's a bit rough and ready and costs a bit more than pizzas and wine for me!

    If you want to hook up with me I'm off shift for the second and third weeks of July.
    Huic ipso mundo ego odi

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brut33 View Post
    I may fit a chair in the future and always wondered if it's better to fit leading link forks.
    Personally I prefer conventional forks on a PROPERLY set up outfit but have had many outfits with leading links.

    LLs change the steering geometry (increase trail?) so make the steering lighter so are better in that regard.
    Downside is you loose feel (a bit like paralever v teles) and they rise when braking so unload the front giving less grip. So they are easier to steer with but don’t, for me, handle the way I like.

    So, short answer is no they aren’t essential and given a choice I’d always choose conventional forks but accept I’m in a minority thinking that.

    Andres

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    Personally I prefer conventional forks on a PROPERLY set up outfit but have had many outfits with leading links.

    LLs change the steering geometry (increase trail?) so make the steering lighter so are better in that regard.
    Downside is you loose feel (a bit like paralever v teles) and they rise when braking so unload the front giving less grip. So they are easier to steer with but don’t, for me, handle the way I like.

    So, short answer is no they aren’t essential and given a choice I’d always choose conventional forks but accept I’m in a minority thinking that.

    Andres
    Leading links are designed to reduce trail,NOT increase trail! The more that trail is reduced,the lighter the steering; too much trail reduction will make for a very(too)light,twitchy steering.

    Leading links do not cause the front end to rise under braking,its the wrong positioning of the brake calipers that causes that. If the brake calipers are mounted on the swingarm,then yes,that will cause the front end to rise under braking. If the calipers are designed to be of the floating type,(and are correctly installed)ie with a torque arm connected to the legs,then they will not rise under braking. Take a look at any racing outfit,(grass track,motox,ect) they all have floating calipers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twistgrip View Post
    Leading links are designed to reduce trail,NOT increase trail! The more that trail is reduced,the lighter the steering; too much trail reduction will make for a very(too)light,twitchy steering.

    Leading links do not cause the front end to rise under braking,its the wrong positioning of the brake calipers that causes that. If the brake calipers are mounted on the swingarm,then yes,that will cause the front end to rise under braking. If the calipers are designed to be of the floating type,(and are correctly installed)ie with a torque arm connected to the legs,then they will not rise under braking. Take a look at any racing outfit,(grass track,motox,ect) they all have floating calipers.
    Fair comment and thanks for the clarification (I did put a question mark against it though as I couldn't remember which way around it was)...................

    I've had one outfit (XS11 based) which had LL's as you describe, it was a Dutch made rig (can't remember the name now) and had wide profile (car) tyres et al. That was a tool without doubt.
    But all the other outfits I've had with LL's have had Unit front ends or similar which are the most common type seen in the UK and perform as stated, I just don't get on with them (they flex like feck too). I much prefer a well set up rig with teles. I appreciate I'm in a minority and not arguing what is better, just stating my preference.

    Andres
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    One of the five imbeciles of the vainglorious big swinging dick types of the Harley section

  12. #12
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    Yes Andre,I agree, Unit leading links; the worst L/L that one could possibly fit to an outfit! Like you say,they flex,and the calipers are mounted on the swingarm. They were,indeed, very common on GB outfits,mainly because they were cheaper than,say Wasp L/L. The Dutch outfit that you had was probably an EML. They are still in business.

  13. #13
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    I just got on with it, no training, never had any issue,

    Just be sensible, start out slowly and build up the experience,

    Having said that with training you will get good quicker and safer.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twistgrip View Post
    Yes Andre,I agree, Unit leading links; the worst L/L that one could possibly fit to an outfit! Like you say,they flex,and the calipers are mounted on the swingarm. They were,indeed, very common on GB outfits,mainly because they were cheaper than,say Wasp L/L. The Dutch outfit that you had was probably an EML. They are still in business.
    That's the one, ta

    Andres
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    One of the five imbeciles of the vainglorious big swinging dick types of the Harley section

  15. #15
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    That could be a thriving business Tarka!

  16. #16
    le jeu des treize Click here to find out how to Subscribe
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    Some interesting stuff and a wealth of experience posted about LL v telescopic forks which answers the question to an extent of
    which is the best. Thanks for the input.
    The differing views indicate there's an element of personal preference coupled with riding styles (or should I say driving styles).
    I gleen from this, there's no best, it's down to the individual and what suits. But there's one thing I must say, LL are fugly compared
    to telescopics.
    You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time,
    but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

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