Advice on Dolomite Routes Wanted

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

Hi,

I'm hoping to get some advice on routes taking in the Dolomites, as it's an area I have never explored before, but have always wanted to. A lot of the stuff I have found online involves circular routes from a fixed base taking in lots of passes, but I will be on my way to Bergamo so am looking for a more linear type of through route, though taking in as much mountain scenery as possible. In Bergamo I am meeting my wife who is flying in for a few days and from where we will have some bimbles around the Italian Lakes. This is the only fixed part of the trip so far, and unfortunately will have to be between 30th July and 3rd August due to her work commitments. Ideally I would have done this out of peak holiday season.

To get to Bergamo I'm thinking of going through Austria and into Northern Italy, though I don't necessarily want to get up close and personal with the mountains, so want to avoid the busiest and most extreme passes. Riding lots of hairpins in high temperatures and with loads of other traffic around is not my idea of fun. I've done plenty of this in the past, but these days it just feels too much like hard work. I am also intending to do some camping, for the first time in many years, so any advice on campsites would be most welcome.

After the stay in Bergamo I'm intending to head down to the Med coast for a few days and then head home via the Route Napoleon, which I have done before, though not on the current 1250 GS.

Fred

Wapping · Jun 23, 2019

I am not very clear on what you want.

I take it that between 30 July and 03 August you are bimbling around from Bergamo to the Italian Lakes before heading to the French Mediterranean coast. Is that correct?

You are looking for a route that takes you from (I guess) Calais to Bergamo, to arrive 30 July? Is that right? If so, when do you depart Calais? This route is to major on the Dolomites:

Advice on Dolomite Routes Wanted

....some advice on routes taking in the Dolomites, as it's an area I have never explored before

a more linear type of through route, though taking in as much mountain scenery as possible

but (and here’s the tricky bit):

though I don't necessarily want to get up close and personal with the mountains, so want to avoid the busiest and most extreme passes. Riding lots of hairpins in high temperatures and with loads of other traffic around is not my idea of fun.

My question therefore is why go to / via the Dolomites at all if you want to avoid too many hairpins?

The most linear (I guess that means straight?) line between two or more points is always a motorway. Motorways do not have lots of tight hairpins. Take the motorway.

Failing that, give us less stuff about Bergamo, your wife flying in, bimbling to lakes etc then onwards to the Mediterranean and back to home. Instead, give us some more detail on what precisely you want before you get to Bergamo, please. Thank you.

Wapping · Jun 23, 2019

Whiist we wait for the above, this from Kurviger would maybe do you.

I asked Kurviger for Calais to Bergamo, direct but at the second of its four settings. This is ‘linear’ ie it will take motorways but not exclude major roads:

Alternatively, via Michelin throws up three choices:

All from an iPhone. You really can’t knock it.

Rasher · Jun 23, 2019

fred_jb said:
though I don't necessarily want to get up close and personal with the mountains,

I think EasyJet is the solution if that is the case as there are lots of mountains in your way on this journey

want to avoid the busiest and most extreme passes. Riding lots of hairpins in high temperatures and with loads of other traffic around is not my idea of fun.

EasyJet is sounding even better. Not sure what you define as "extreme", 99% of the passes are well paved, the vast majority are wide enough for two cars to pass.

The passes are no hotter than any other road in the region, in fact probably cooler as if you avoid passes you will be in the lower valleys with more heat and humidity.

I am not sure what you mean by "Lots of other traffic" as in my experience nearly all Alpine roads are much quieter than the rural roads of England, plus on a motorcycle you can easily overtake so traffic can be dealt with quickly and efficiently.

I've done plenty of this in the past, but these days it just feels too much like hard work

Definitely take the plane, with all this being hard work it will be a lot worse after the long slog to Austria on boiling hot motorways with real holiday traffic problems.

After the stay in Bergamo I'm intending to head down to the Med coast for a few days and then head home via the Route Napoleon, which I have done before, though not on the current 1250 GS.

And you are worried about the traffic in the Dolomites! When I said nearly all Alpine roads have little traffic the "nearly" referred to Route Napoleon which has to be one of the most congested roads in France - it will also be baking hot.

I am not sure the fact you will be riding a new 1250GS has any baring on this, I did wonder if the salesman told you it had some sort of anti-congestion device, but if that were the case surely you could also use it in the Dolomites, or is it only effective against French traffic?

I really do not think anyone can come up with a route through Alpine Passes in August with no hairpins, no heat and no other traffic - although if you find one please do come back and let us all know!

Wapping · Jun 23, 2019

I am also intending to do some camping......so any advice on campsites would be most welcome.

Campsites in the Dolomites?

Campsites elsewhere?

Either way, try the Archie’s site: https://archiescampings.eu/

Failing that: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Best+campsites+Dolomites

Wapping · Jun 23, 2019

Whilst you ponder on Rasher’s good advice and on the answers to my questions, I do wonder if this might suit you?

https://www.guidedolomiti.com/en/great-dolomites-road/

As it’s car friendly, it will do for anyone not wanting anything to arduous but give you a decent look at the Dolomites. Your challenge then is to work what is a west to east route into your itinerary which is near enough north to south. It can be done. Here’s Kurviger’s suggestion, again based on the second setting:

I did it just using the four towns. If you give Kurviger more towns along the route Bolzano to Cortina, it will fill in the gaps better.

This site might help you, too:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theworldisacircus.com/2018/08/road-trip-dolomites/amp/

All I did was Google ‘Great driving roads Dolomites’ - Getting closer to Google’s famed ability to do most things in just a three word search. I added driving as most car drivers do not want goat tracks. Not many blokes on 1250 GS’s do either.

It’s all done on an iPhone.

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

Wapping said:
I am not very clear on what you want.

I take it that between 30 July and 03 August you are bimbling around from Bergamo to the Italian Lakes before heading to the French Mediterranean coast. Is that correct?

You are looking for a route that takes you from (I guess) Calais to Bergamo, to arrive 30 July? Is that right? If so, when do you depart Calais? This route is to major on the Dolomites:

but (and here’s the tricky bit):

My question therefore is why go to / via the Dolomites at all if you want to avoid too many hairpins?

The most linear (I guess that means straight?) line between two or more points is always a motorway. Motorways do not have lots of tight hairpins. Take the motorway.

Failing that, give us less stuff about Bergamo, your wife flying in, bimbling to lakes etc then onwards to the Mediterranean and back to home. Instead, give us some more detail on what precisely you want before you get to Bergamo, please. Thank you.

Hi Wapping - thanks for your responses to my request.

I guess this is getting the sort of reception I might have expected as soon as I said I wanted to see the mountains but not necessarily take in lots of passes!

I do about 5000 miles a year, mainly on European trips, and have just got back from a tour in Spain, so I'm reasonably experienced and I don't have any issue with setting up general routes for this trip and think I can manage to get from Calais to Bergamo unaided! I also don't have any constraints on the start or end dates within reason, so 2-3 weeks away.

All I am really after is some advice on that part of the route which will take me through the Austrian and Northern Italian Alps on preferably non-motorway roads, taking in the scenery while avoiding the busiest routes. Lots of the published routes deliberately take in every possible pass, and are often circular tours, and I am not interested in doing that.

I don't have a problem with hairpins as such, just not keen on routes which have so many that it becomes tedious and a test of endurance. In answer to Rasher's helpful suggestions, I would say that I ride for pleasure and not to fulfil anyone else's macho expectations of what a ride through the Alps should entail.

Thanks again for your responses - I appreciate the time you have put into this. I will check out the camping guide, and your last map looks similar to the route I have come up with so far:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/C...d1!2m2!1d9.6772698!2d45.6982642!3e0!4e1?hl=en

Fred

AndyB_11 · Jun 23, 2019

I’ve just had a quick look at your proposed route and my immediate reaction is that given the time of year you’re going I’d amend it to avoid the Bodensee because it gets horribly congested if you go either north or south of the lake. I’d probably keep to the south side of The Vosges then weave my way east but that might be too similar to your proposed return route.

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

AndyB_11 said:
I’ve just had a quick look at your proposed route and my immediate reaction is that given the time of year you’re going I’d amend it to avoid the Bodensee because it gets horribly congested if you go either north or south of the lake. I’d probably keep to the south side of The Vosges then weave my way east but that might be too similar to your proposed return route.

Thanks Andy, that's just the sort of info I'm after.

AndyB_11 · Jun 23, 2019

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you drop too far south and end up near Turin or Milan you’ll pay what appears to be the equivalent of a nights accommodation in road tolls.

I’d probably go Vosges, Doubs, Neuchatel, Interlaken and if you’re careful you should avoid the need for a vignette in Switzerland. They’re only a rough guide giving you two nice regions to pick a random route through and two towns to aim at but avoid going into. You could do Bergamo in two days from Calais if you get an evening tunnel then spend your first night in one of the hotels at Coquelles or spend 3-4 days messing about and sitting admiring the scenery. The choice is yours.

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

AndyB_11 said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you drop too far south and end up near Turin or Milan you’ll pay what appears to be the equivalent of a nights accommodation in road tolls.

I’d probably go Vosges, Doubs, Neuchatel, Interlaken and if you’re careful you should avoid the need for a vignette in Switzerland. They’re only a rough guide giving you two nice regions to pick a random route through and two towns to aim at but avoid going into. You could do Bergamo in two days from Calais if you get an evening tunnel then spend your first night in one of the hotels at Coquelles or spend 3-4 days messing about and sitting admiring the scenery. The choice is yours.

Thanks Andy - will look into that, but will be taking it easy as the idea IS to admire the scenery and do some camping which tends to be a little more time consuming than checking into and out of hotels. One of the reasons for the original plan was to avoid Switzerland so that I didn't accidentally stray onto a motorway without a vignette, but will look at that in more detail. I think I diverted and did part of that route through a few years ago on the way to a Greece tour when the St Bernard tunnel had 20 mile tailbacks.

squibb34 · Jun 23, 2019

Beautiful as they are, I would stay away from bimbles around the Italian Lakes at that time of the year - the traffic can be a right PITA, not unlike Bodensee.

Why not base, with your good lady, on say Como & use the local water transport. She's only there for a few days & won't thank you for a hot sweaty ride in a traffic queue.

With regard to the Dolomites question, TBH I really can't see the point if you don't enjoy mountain passes. Easy enough to base up in the Adige Valley, say between Bolzano & Trento & make your mind up when you get there - enter Italy from either Landeck or over the Brenner.

Alternatively take the Rhone Valley through CH. Last time we routed via the Black Forest, overnighted at Bulle, before a lovely ride up to Gruyere, Chateau d'Oex & Leysin, then on to Martigny - plentiful classic Guzzis everywhere we went. Then options - continue along the Rhone Valley to Brig & take the Simplon pass or use the Gran S. Bernard; it's an easy ride these days, if you use the tunnel, then down the Aosta Valley. Even better though over the old GSB pass, but plenty of worn hairpins there I'm afraid.

Anyway, have a good trip whatever you decide.

Rasher · Jun 23, 2019

I think I have the gist of the ask, Andy's post is a great option and I have used similar routes in the past, normally when heading more towards / back from the French Alps.

If it was me I would probably look at a longer ride there on lesser roads with plenty of time in hand, probably start by heading into the Ardennes and onto Luxembourg, I often head that way for a weekend and after about 2 hours of Motorway from Calais I can be on nice quiet backroads through to Bouillon and on into Luxembourg.

From there I guess you could go across Germany, but I do not know that very well, and with sufficient time I would probably head towards the Black Forest and pickup the B500 just south of Baden Baden, it will probably have some traffic in places, but generally would be a nice way of making progress. I would then cut across to Ravensburg and along to Garmisch.

I would then head south into the Dolomites, up until this point you would hopefully avoid really heavy traffic and hairpin infested passes - but that is what you will find in the Dolomites in August!

You could also come down from the Black Forest to Andermatt and then take a route on towards the Stelvio (but that as hairpins) using a combo of some of these - Oberalp, Lukmanier, San Bernadino, Splugen, Maloja, Albula, Julier, Bernina - but they all have some hairpins, may have some other traffic and could be very hot in places - but last time we visited the Dolomites this was the route we took.

The Dolomite passes directly to the East of Cortina tend to be busy (Giau, Valparola, Falzerego, Sella) but further south they tend to be fairly free of traffic, heading out early helps a lot with both traffic and heat - plus late afternoon storms are common during summer so I prefer to go out early, get an hour or two of quiet roads and cool temps and then not spend too long riding in 35c heat and / or thunderstorms - which are great to watch from the comfort of the Hotel Bar with a cool beer in hand ;-)

One thing I always consider is it is cooler at altitude, high passes may have a few hairpins here and there, but they are often below 20c when the valleys below are nudging up towards 40.

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

squibb34 said:
Beautiful as they are, I would stay away from bimbles around the Italian Lakes at that time of the year - the traffic can be a right PITA, not unlike Bodensee.

Why not base, with your good lady, on say Como & use the local water transport. She's only there for a few days & won't thank you for a hot sweaty ride in a traffic queue.

With regard to the Dolomites question, TBH I really can't see the point if you don't enjoy mountain passes. Easy enough to base up in the Adige Valley, say between Bolzano & Trento & make your mind up when you get there - enter Italy from either Landeck or over the Brenner.

Alternatively take the Rhone Valley through CH. Last time we routed via the Black Forest, overnighted at Bulle, before a lovely ride up to Gruyere, Chateau d'Oex & Leysin, then on to Martigny - plentiful classic Guzzis everywhere we went. Then options - continue along the Rhone Valley to Brig & take the Simplon pass or use the Gran S. Bernard; it's an easy ride these days, if you use the tunnel, then down the Aosta Valley. Even better though over the old GSB pass, but plenty of worn hairpins there I'm afraid.

Anyway, have a good trip whatever you decide.

Thanks for the advice and the good wishes. We've been to the Italian lakes before and know what you mean about the traffic, particularly on the lakeside roads, but we will not be attempting to circumnavigate any of the lakes - just visit some specific places, and intend to take some boat trips.

I considered approaching via Germany, but have never enjoyed travelling through that country. The motorways are not all they are cracked up to be, lots of two lane sections and surprisingly not in the greatest state of repair in some cases as I found when I travelled from Innsbruck to friends near Rotterdam on my way back from Greece. I was avoiding France due to the petrol tanker strike and ended up doing 600+ miles in one day, mainly because there was nowhere on that route I fancied stopping! However, I realise there are great places to visit in Germany such as the B500 route which I will have to do someday.

Regarding the Dolomites question, when I was young I never used to take an easy road if there was a pass available, and I'm not totally averse to taking in some passes now, but it is more for the scenery than the riding, as in terms of riding pleasure these days I find the sweeping curves of the valley roads much more appealing. I have some passes on my tentative route but just don't want to do anything too extreme and busy like the Stelvio.

I think I will reconsider avoiding Switzerland, and though I resent paying for a one year motorway pass for one trip, its not much money in the broader scheme of things, and gives me more options. I have found an interesting route out of Switzerland which involves taking a car transporter train through a long tunnel, which looks fun, so may go for that (https://www.rhb.ch/en/car-transporter) and cross into Italy just north of the Stelvio. Maybe something like this:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/C...d1!2m2!1d9.6772698!2d45.6982642!3e0!4e1?hl=en

Fred

fred_jb · Jun 23, 2019

Rasher said:
I think I have the gist of the ask, Andy's post is a great option and I have used similar routes in the past, normally when heading more towards / back from the French Alps.

If it was me I would probably look at a longer ride there on lesser roads with plenty of time in hand, probably start by heading into the Ardennes and onto Luxembourg, I often head that way for a weekend and after about 2 hours of Motorway from Calais I can be on nice quiet backroads through to Bouillon and on into Luxembourg.

From there I guess you could go across Germany, but I do not know that very well, and with sufficient time I would probably head towards the Black Forest and pickup the B500 just south of Baden Baden, it will probably have some traffic in places, but generally would be a nice way of making progress. I would then cut across to Ravensburg and along to Garmisch.

I would then head south into the Dolomites, up until this point you would hopefully avoid really heavy traffic and hairpin infested passes - but that is what you will find in the Dolomites in August!

You could also come down from the Black Forest to Andermatt and then take a route on towards the Stelvio (but that as hairpins) using a combo of some of these - Oberalp, Lukmanier, San Bernadino, Splugen, Maloja, Albula, Julier, Bernina - but they all have some hairpins, may have some other traffic and could be very hot in places - but last time we visited the Dolomites this was the route we took.

The Dolomite passes directly to the East of Cortina tend to be busy (Giau, Valparola, Falzerego, Sella) but further south they tend to be fairly free of traffic, heading out early helps a lot with both traffic and heat - plus late afternoon storms are common during summer so I prefer to go out early, get an hour or two of quiet roads and cool temps and then not spend too long riding in 35c heat and / or thunderstorms - which are great to watch from the comfort of the Hotel Bar with a cool beer in hand ;-)

One thing I always consider is it is cooler at altitude, high passes may have a few hairpins here and there, but they are often below 20c when the valleys below are nudging up towards 40.

Hi Rasher,

Thanks for the route suggestions which I will look into and the other good advice, especially about the weather - I remember the regular afternoon thunderstorms last time we visited Lake Garda. As mentioned earlier I also don't know Germany well, and haven't particularly enjoyed travelling there, but I've only travelled through to get somewhere else, so haven't sought out the better roads like the B500.

I'm not currently planning to go as far east as Cortina before heading west, but maybe I could drop down further south than my current tentative plan to make a bit longer excursion into the mountains.

Fred

Rasher · Jun 25, 2019

The B500 was quite good about a decade ago when I first went there, I have since regularly used the Black Forest on the way to or from the Alps and noticed over the years that more and more of it has had lower speed limits imposed, and I understand more Plod activity (particularly at weekends)

It is a victim of its own success, not helped by British Magazines promoting it as an free alternative to the Ring, but a lot of "locals" (Germans) also turn up and throw their cars and bikes into the scenery.

It is still worth riding the "famous bit" (the 25 or so mile south of Baden) and there is some great scenery along the way, but the reality is the road is less congested and more enjoyable further south, and many of the other Black Forest roads are also superior as they are more remote and less travelled.

Pension Williams is just off the famous section of the B500 and great value in a quaint little village, or stop at Triberg if you prefer a bit more hustle and bustle, or a more romantic setting.

The Manghen Pass in the Dolomites is lovely, I am sure you would enjoy it, decent cafe at the top, great views, not too many horrible hairpins, the Laveze and Costalunga can be used to get to / from it and are also very nice without too much traffic or lots of annoying switchbacks, or approaching from the East then the Brocon, Cereda and Aurine are also great less travelled roads - in fact anywhere other than the famous figure-8 loop around Arabba is pretty good.

PS: I would still rather ride the Stelvio than take a f****g train!

Khulu · Jun 25, 2019

Here's some Dolomite passes and I route I did last year. Hairpins not as bad as some I've done elsewhere.
Pick any bits you like and play with your options / preferences:

fred_jb · Jun 25, 2019

Rasher said:
The B500 was quite good about a decade ago when I first went there, I have since regularly used the Black Forest on the way to or from the Alps and noticed over the years that more and more of it has had lower speed limits imposed, and I understand more Plod activity (particularly at weekends)

It is a victim of its own success, not helped by British Magazines promoting it as an free alternative to the Ring, but a lot of "locals" (Germans) also turn up and throw their cars and bikes into the scenery.

It is still worth riding the "famous bit" (the 25 or so mile south of Baden) and there is some great scenery along the way, but the reality is the road is less congested and more enjoyable further south, and many of the other Black Forest roads are also superior as they are more remote and less travelled.

Pension Williams is just off the famous section of the B500 and great value in a quaint little village, or stop at Triberg if you prefer a bit more hustle and bustle, or a more romantic setting.

The Manghen Pass in the Dolomites is lovely, I am sure you would enjoy it, decent cafe at the top, great views, not too many horrible hairpins, the Laveze and Costalunga can be used to get to / from it and are also very nice without too much traffic or lots of annoying switchbacks, or approaching from the East then the Brocon, Cereda and Aurine are also great less travelled roads - in fact anywhere other than the famous figure-8 loop around Arabba is pretty good.

PS: I would still rather ride the Stelvio than take a f****g train!

Many thanks to you and other contributors - very useful information, and much appreciated. I'm coming to the opinion that I will only pre-plan the routes to and from the area and just be flexible while I'm there, possibly basing myself somewhere convenient, or maybe two locations, and just doing rideouts rather than a continuous tour of the area as I originally intended. Assuming I camp it will also reduce the amount of tedious tent erecting and packing required.

However, I will make a note of the recommendations and make sure that I have them as mini-routes in my satnav app just to record them as possible day destinations. I have been using streetview on Google maps to try and select roads that I like the look of. Some look good on the map, but turn out to be largely below the treeline and with tall trees either side of narrow roads, are a bit lacking in views other than tantalising glimpses of the mountains through the odd gap. Another annoyance with Google is that it doesn't show the names of passes, or at least not unless you are so zoomed in that you lose track of your overall position on the map.

Haha - the f*****g train! The Klosters train does not exactly bypass the Stelvio, but does allow a more direct route into that area from the west, but I'm still not tempted to do that pass, and taking the train is apparently not without its excitements. Comments by other bikers who have taken it say do not leave your gloves sitting on the bike as due to the open carriages they are liable to be blown away, and also recommend keeping crash helmets on just in case!

Thanks again to all who have contributed.

Fred

fred_jb · Jun 25, 2019

Khulu said:
Here's some Dolomite passes and I route I did last year. Hairpins not as bad as some I've done elsewhere.
Pick any bits you like and play with your options / preferences:

That's great - thanks for that. Very handy to see all the named passes.

Fred

Khulu · Jun 25, 2019

fred_jb said:
That's great - thanks for that. Very handy to see all the named passes.

Fred

I've ridden the Stelvio and it's not my cup of tea either.
When heading to the Austrian MotoGP I usually ride from Soelden to do the Timmeljoch, Gerlosstrasse and Grossglockner in the one day and they're gentle curves and even their tightest corners are done on the flat with excellent road surface.
Here's my route extract:

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