Cardo Vs Sena, my thoughts

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Over the years Ive had both makes of units and have come to some conclusions.
I haven't had any of the mesh systems yet just bluetooth. I originally had a scala rider then a riderFM, neither of these were very good then I got a sena 5Sfm and it was head and shoulders above the scala. I stuck with that for a while then got a 20Sevo as a mate had a 20S, bike to bike this worked really well, battery life was ok but not as good as the 5S. I got the wife a 10S and they paired quite easily and was pretty clear comms to be honest. As some may know the Senas are not guaranteed waterproof like the Cardos are but I never had an issue in the wet. Then when I got the nav six the issues started, add to that my mate got a freecom4 that he really liked. I could pair to him universally but that meant I had no nav or music when paired together. I pair my nav to my phone then the nav to the comms, this avoids confusion between the channels, when I did that with the sena i could play the mp3s stored on the navs sdcard ok and I could play the music on my iPhone, but it was hit or miss whether I could skip tracks etc with either the wheel or touching the nav screen, mostly it didn't work, and for the most part I thought it was the nav or my iPhone, never thought it could be the sena.
So i took the plunge and got a pair of freecom4+ units and sold the senas.
First impressions are they are a lot lighter and smaller, the 20Sevo and freecom4+ are both brands top range bluetooth units. I prefer the mount on the Sena as it feels a little more secure but I love the size and narrowness of the cardo, it doesnt catch my kriega rucksack straps turning the volume up or down. First points to the cardo. The mount on the cardo is just a clip on while the sena is a bolt on, initially i thought the clip was a a bit cheap but it holds the unit really well and makes the whole setup lighter and simpler, again another point to the cardo. As for connecting, connecting the exact same way as the sena was, the cardo, nav and phone all worked perfectly, I can control my phone music with either the wiz wheel, nav screen or even the cardo and my phone is not connected directly to the cardo either, go figure!
Installation wise I found the sena slightly easier as the speakers are slightly smaller (i'll come to the speakers later) and the wires thinner and easier to route in the helmet, the cardo uses a phone jack plug so you could use buds or different speakers. Because of the jack plugs they are a lot bulkier than the sena so harder to hide in the helmet but the cables are a lot stronger.
Now for the speakers, the 4+ comes with JBL speakers as standard and boy do they sound good, if you just listen to music and directions this is the way to go, they blow the sena into the weeds, sound quality of music is way better.

So its looking cardo all the way then I hear you say, well it has its faults or niggles. Firstly you can only adjust settings using either their app or the cardo community website, to make things worse you cant do all the settings with the app and you cant do all the settings with the web page, you need to use both!! Thats just crap, senas phone app and web app is far better, and failing that you can enter the senas menu without either if you want, sena gains some ground back.
Rider to passenger comms I think I prefer the sena, at the moment the wife's mic is picking up exhaust noise every time she says something and its not as clear as the sena was, this maybe just a setting, but unless you carry a computer with you and have the unit connected to your phone and the app installed you cant adjust anything on the fly, and as I connect using the nav as a bridge its a bloody pain. Both units have FM radios and the sena wins this battle as well, using the same stations the sena is a lot clearer but neither are brilliant.
Both units can charge while riding but the cardo needs a usb port for its cable to plug in while the sena uses either a cig style socket or usb, the sena plugs in at the rear and the cardo at the bottom, the cardo's socket is a lot better fit and more secure.
I haven't tried bike to bike yet but i cant see why it wouldn't be as could as the sena was.
Conclusion, as I ride a lot on my own listening to music or podcasts the cardo wins hands down as its connection is more stable and the sound far better, but if you talk on comms to your pillion and not a music listener I think the sena wins as its clearer on comms, it also connects to more riders than the freecom can, but I don't know if I would want to talk to more than three people on a ride but that is a personal thing.

SO i'll give the cardo a good go, I'm off across europe next week so that will be a good test for its battery life as well.
 
Yes, I used to use autocom wired system for just listening to music and nav, that is the most versatile for listening to more than one source but the convenience of Bluetooth out weighs all the wiring.
 
I went the other way. Horses for courses.
I used to run a CardoQ3. However, When i upgraded my bike to TFT it became obsolete due to the 3.0 BT, (TFT requires 4.0BT) What I preferred over the Cardo was Real world use. The Sena is so much easier to use, and I found both BT and Music audio fantastic. The 30k im now running has mesh. But I've not played with that yet !
The huge downgrade of the Sena is, as you pointed out. The water proof of the Sena. Why oh why is it not waterproof ?
 
I agree. The 4+ has a dial for volume etc, if it didn’t have a dial I don’t think I would have got one, for me the sound quality is a vast improvement, probably a vast improvement over your old cardo as well. But the more compact size is a real bonus over the Sena.
 
my twopenorthworth
Bopught sena 20s, and was very pleased with to start, however, soon found the rider to rider was very prone to drop out and this became annoying as it always seemed to happen when we at some critcial junction and separated by traffic ( still close enough that BT should and often did work)
music, satnav, phone all good radio pants. speakers N/A as I use UE earbud
So for just over 2 years and several tours, fine. Then one day just out of warranty it lost ability to transmit, I could hear the others but they could not hear me ( a blessing, you might think!)
research seems to indicate this is a common issue with sena 20s. possible due to water ingress! I was really frustrated by sena so called helpdesk, thye were unwilling to acknowledge the problem and basiccaly said "its a disposable item, buy another or try our new 30 mesh etc)
binned and bought a cardo, my pals had a good laugh, right up until their sena 20s started to do the same!!
cardo packtalk, worked well out of the box,then had issues with the app and website which then required me to reset to factory and start over again
well, its OK, but support is equally poor. The app and website are a right old mixture, only a fecking nerd would think it was fun but usless generally to use easily and on the hoof.
radio is pants , satnav fine, phone ok voice activation of functions is a nice idea but required learning to speak at a volume and tone of voice that the cardo could understand. It also appears that giving voice commmands and talking on the mesh are treated the same, so everyone hears what you want the thing to do!
just shouting as loudly as you can calling it a fecking piece of crap just amuses your meshmates! DAMHIK
a lot of reboots needed to get things working that worked moments earlier, a pain as having numb finger tips that means the helmet has to come off!

Mesh
is definetly better than normal BT, connections not lost ( unless due to cardo not remembering that you were in the mesh group from a few minutes ago, switch on and off seemd top cure it but what a fecking faff!) at some surprising distances on occasion and also in towns with buildings blocking signal you would think

So, they are both flawed by design, seems to be they also make it as difficult as possible to pair with a non cardo unit, ( the accountants clearly want everyone to buy their product)
support from both is cr*p, I relish the conversations where its clear they think they are doing me a big favour by even bothering to talk to me
I see they are now supplying JBL speakers, the standard ones are ok as long as positioned spot on and unless you want music without windnoise ruining your bonnamassa
of course both offer duplex so no more of that autocom, pause or "roger, over " sh*t, to say nothing of the cables etc and so on
 
I agree with that as well, website and app from cardo is utter shite imho.
 
I’ve just changed from U Clear to Cardo Scala Freecom 1+ which is apparently 100% waterproof, which is why I went from the U Clear as it died a watery death. So far, I’m very pleased with the Freecom, connects seamlessly, the FM radio is good and battery life also good. I’ve also had Interphone before which I was disappointed with, so for now I’m in the Cardo camp.
 
I could be arsed reading thru the OP but as an ex sena 10u user and now a sena 20s user I've never experienced any issues with comms though I would say I had two seperate 10u's both had speaker issues. Not done comms with the 20s yet but will do shortly on a Euro trip.

On the cardo, we used them for the trials bikes and they were fine, and when I had it on my road helmet it played music much louder than the sena, liked the way the volume would go up as my speed increased.
 
I have used a Packtalk (original) for over 5 years, no issues what so ever with talking to my pillion, not exhaust noise nothing, and I have used the Packtalk on Harlyes for 2 years and since my BMWs. I also have no issues with using the app to change settings, I may have setup the Packtalk with the community web page, but once done, years ago, I have not needed to change anything that the app can't do. So very happy with the product. I have also not had any issues with support, only 2 days ago sent an email to support in the US and had a reply within 12 hours. There is also a facebook page, which they do respond to questions on.
 
I'm very happy with my Packtalk BOLD but I also have a Sena 20S. Max volumes are about the same but the Packtalk audio quality is clearer with less static.

Only problem with the Packtalk is the size of the speaker, it doesn't fit in every helmet. The JBL speakers are even bigger so something to think about
 
I'm a 20s Evo user (after being a SMH10 user for several years) and by and large I'm happy with the functionality - I find that unfamiliarity with the controls or settings (on the part of myself or fellow riders) can often be the cause of difficulties.

Regardless of the claims about the various features which are offered by both the major manufacturers, I find that the best transmission and reception are when two or perhaps three riders are linked together within line of sight. Add in more riders, or stretch the distance and the performance tails off (again I suspect due in no small part to inept operation by some!). I'd suggest that if you limit your expectations then you shouldn't be disappointed with the kit

All of that said, I was tempted by some YouTube reviews of the PackTalk Bold until I read on here of the need to fart about with computer and app to set the damn thing up. Perhaps I'll save my money
 
I'm a 20s Evo user (after being a SMH10 user for several years) and by and large I'm happy with the functionality - I find that unfamiliarity with the controls or settings (on the part of myself or fellow riders) can often be the cause of difficulties.

Regardless of the claims about the various features which are offered by both the major manufacturers, I find that the best transmission and reception are when two or perhaps three riders are linked together within line of sight. Add in more riders, or stretch the distance and the performance tails off (again I suspect due in no small part to inept operation by some!). I'd suggest that if you limit your expectations then you shouldn't be disappointed with the kit

All of that said, I was tempted by some YouTube reviews of the PackTalk Bold until I read on here of the need to fart about with computer and app to set the damn thing up. Perhaps I'll save my money

Setting both the Sena and Cardo up are about the same experiences. Can be done via the headset, phone app or desktop. I wouldn't say one is harder than the other
 
Setting both the Sena and Cardo up are about the same experiences. Can be done via the headset, phone app or desktop. I wouldn't say one is harder than the other

Please tell me how I can adjust the setting on my freecom 4+ without a pc or the app?
 
Please tell me how I can adjust the setting on my freecom 4+ without a pc or the app?

Not sure about the freecom, but you need the community to do any firmware updates so you have to use it at some point. I can't remember what I needed to setup in the community, as there wasn't an app 5 years ago (well not the new one). But I do know I only setup bits once and from then on and subsequently I have only used the app for audio settings, intercom settings, setting up mesh groups etc. I only every go to the community for firmware opdates. But maybe your doing something different to what I do. As an aside, I use DMC mesh for my intercom to my pillion as well, which gives me an open mic and I find it better than using standard BT. Speaker size wise, I fitted aftermarket speakers Torx xpro which are large, I had to modify the speaker pockets to get them to fit, but this was before JBL came along.
 
Thanks to all for the informative reporting. Every time I think it’s time to finally pension off the Autocom SPA a thread such as this one brings me back to reality.
I have no need of bike to bike “mesh” functionality, just rider to pillion, GPS/music. I’ve tried the BMW BT system and was unimpressed. A brief try with an expensive Cardo system proved to be more problematic than I was prepared to accommodate.
Any suggestions as to a good system and knowledgeable dealers would be most welcome. I would stress the latter as the dealers I’ve called for advice seemed a little light on technical knowledge.
Cheers!
 
Not sure about the freecom, but you need the community to do any firmware updates so you have to use it at some point. I can't remember what I needed to setup in the community, as there wasn't an app 5 years ago (well not the new one). But I do know I only setup bits once and from then on and subsequently I have only used the app for audio settings, intercom settings, setting up mesh groups etc. I only every go to the community for firmware opdates. But maybe your doing something different to what I do. As an aside, I use DMC mesh for my intercom to my pillion as well, which gives me an open mic and I find it better than using standard BT. Speaker size wise, I fitted aftermarket speakers Torx xpro which are large, I had to modify the speaker pockets to get them to fit, but this was before JBL came along.

This is one place where the Sena beats the cardo, you can't adjust any settings what's so ever without the app, and as I connect using the nav as a bridge and don't have the phone connected to the cardo the only setting I can change is the volume, hopefully once I get everything set as I want it I won't have to.I don't use any of the mesh systems as none of my friends have mesh units.
 
This is one place where the Sena beats the cardo, you can't adjust any settings what's so ever without the app, and as I connect using the nav as a bridge and don't have the phone connected to the cardo the only setting I can change is the volume, hopefully once I get everything set as I want it I won't have to.I don't use any of the mesh systems as none of my friends have mesh units.

Yes you can, by using the community web page and a usb cable. So how do you change Sena setup without an app or connection to a computer. Do you do it all through the Sena unit with a menu system or button presses? I also have my phone connected to my Nav and to my Packtalk, the phone uses the Nav to control the phone when connected, but I can still use the app. When I am riding a bike without my Nav, the phone uses the direct connection for phone calls. So having the phone connected to both the unit and Nav at the same time, doesn't cause any issues on the Packtalk.
 
Yes you can, by using the community web page and a usb cable. So how do you change Sena setup without an app or connection to a computer. Do you do it all through the Sena unit with a menu system or button presses? I also have my phone connected to my Nav and to my Packtalk, the phone uses the Nav to control the phone when connected, but I can still use the app. When I am riding a bike without my Nav, the phone uses the direct connection for phone calls. So having the phone connected to both the unit and Nav at the same time, doesn't cause any issues on the Packtalk.

That’s good to know that having both connected doesn’t cause any issues, wasn’t sure if there would be conflicts with different music sources as I have music on my nav and my iPhone so I use the navs source selection so both don’t try and play at once, my nav is always on the bike so not an issue for me. Yes on the Sena you can access everything through button pressing and the wheel, you don’t seem to be able to access any of that on the cardo without a app or pc unless someone knows different
 


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