not so Good Vibrations

NomadLad

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I've had my GS for just over 2 years. It's a 2016 with 22,000 miles on it.

I came pretty close to selling it, but I've come to the conclusion that it's set up just the way I want it and it's the best all round bike in the world.

My issues though, I'm sure its developed a droning vibe between 3 and 4 thousand rpm in 3rd, 4th, a little in 5th gear. When droning in 4th at those rpm, if I shift to 5th, the droning frequency increases by double if that helps?

The bike is 100% aside from that.

I'm planning to do an oil change, final drive oil change and re-grease in the next few days... any suggestions about other things I might check while rooting around? It's my first time doing any work on the GS too.

It's always been serviced to schedule by BMW but as far as I know they dont regrease the drive shaft.

If I cant locate and fix the vibe I'm either going to trade it for an XR or get the extendable warranty.... not sure which yet.

Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the reference, plenty of bedtime reading there. You think it could be valve clearances?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Here's a weird one from today.

I had been messing with my Ohlins Suspension and went out this morning.... had a vibration through the bars which caused my throttle hand to go numb.

So during the day I adjusted the Compression by one click (plus direction) to make the front end slightly harder....

Anyways, coincidentally the vibration disappeared as well.

So harmonics and vibes can come from anywhere.
 
lets see what the shaft is like.. would be interesting..

Not sure how it can double in speed between 4th to 5th... the engine RPM will drop... the output shaft will speed up, but not double in speed?
if it is a drone / cycle type thing, it may be worth doing a re-set of the ECU.. or get the dealer to plug it in and check / re-set it...
 
Droning vibes between 3 and 4K? Very well documented issue with GS/GSA. The search function throws up many examples = common issue with W/C bikes.
 
Warlord said:
Here's a weird one from today.

I had been messing with my Ohlins Suspension and went out this morning.... had a vibration through the bars which caused my throttle hand to go numb.

So during the day I adjusted the Compression by one click (plus direction) to make the front end slightly harder....

Anyways, coincidentally the vibration disappeared as well.

So harmonics and vibes can come from anywhere.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.
I can appreciate that the GS is a vibey old beast but having had this one for 2 years, I can certainly feel the difference in the last few months.
Also, the vibes come through the footpegs and change specifically with engine speed and gear, that rules out any suspension issues for me I think.

Morety said:
Droning vibes between 3 and 4K? Very well documented issue with GS/GSA. The search function throws up many examples = common issue with W/C bikes.
Click to expand...

I've been searching far and wide for the last few weeks to try and find the answer both here and on other forums/pages.

Whenever I find symptoms that match mine, the thread trails off onto another subject or the OP never actually comes to a conclusion.

I guess the best thing to do for now is to change engine oil and filter. Then test.

Then drop and replace Final Drive oil, during, inspect and re-grease the splines.
 
I'm going to go ahead with the

  • -Engine Oil and Filter change
  • -Final Drive Oil change
  • -Check and Re-grease Splines

It's the first time doing any work on the GS myself.

Any suggestions on what I should check on the driveshaft aside from checking for rust and play?

Anything I should watch out for or any 'gotchas'?

I'm planning to use Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease on the driveshaft, will that suffice?

Just waiting on delivery of new rear caliper mounting bolts before I do the job.


Cheers :thumby:
 
topcat2006 said:
Tyres?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not.

I have the Anakee 3s and I'm very familiar with the annoying whine that comes from them (soon to be replaced!), where-as this is a mechanical vibration, felt mostly through the footpegs, and changes with engine speed and gear.
 
This phenomenon is quite well known, I don't know what percentage of bikes are affected but there are quite a few.
The vibration presents itself as a pulsing/ thrumming most commonly in 4th gear between 2750 and 3750rpm, it is coming from the gearbox as it is engine not road speed related.
It is present when the engine is under light load, most noticable if you put the bike in 4th gear at 3250rpm on cruise control.

My previous '14 GS did it badly enough to be very intrusive and really spoilt the riding experience so I PXed it for my current '17 GS.
With the '14 bike it started at about 6000mls and got progressively worse till 18000mls when I PXed it.
The current bike does it too a lesser degree that I can live with, now at 23000mls, didn't start vibrating untill 12000mls.

Unfortunately It will not go away, I believe it is a resonant harmonic that would only be resolved by a small gearbox change, I don't know what it would take, it cant be much as does not affect all bikes.
The dealers will say either "I have never heard of this before" or "they all do that" depending on who you speak to.
 
Gotchas are:-

a) When refilling oil it's easy to overfill. About 200ml gets caught up in the clutch housing sometimes and doesn't drain into the sight glass. So you can keep adding more until sight glass is at correct level, then in the morning it'll be overfilled. I usually fill about 3.5 litres, turn the engine over to warm up, leave it on it's sidestand for a while to drain then put it back on centrestand, check oil level and top up... but monitor quantity not more then 4 litres total.

b) When taking oil filter off the bike oil will spew all over your exhaust pipes directly below it. Wrap some tin foil around it to keep the oil off. Then carefully remove tin foil when your finished.

c) The final drive filler bolts are low torque and the threads need to be DRY before retorqueing. If they are still wet with oil you risk over torqueing them and can strip the threads.

d) When dropping the final drive it's heavy. I use a small scissor jack underneath it to hold the weight. You can then fine tune its height better when realigning the splines.

e) When dropping the final drive, if its rusted together, the shaft drive will be pulled backwards and may pop off the gearbox end mount. This creates a very annoying problem... you now have to either...

i) Try and push it back onto the gearbox end until it 'clicks' into place (extremely difficult)... and leave it all alone.

ii) Unbolt the final drive from the swing arm and pull it all out together (final drive and swingarm). It'll then need seperating on a workbench.

f) When refitting all the rubber boots, if you regrease top and bottom boots so they're airtight... pressure can build up in the swingarm. You need to allow an airgap for pressure variations.

Good luck :)
 
I know i will get shot down for this, but might as well say it and let the its Subjective crew jump onboard, I had vibes in the footpegs, I would not say bad enough to ruin my ride, so since I have installed the AF-XIED,s and have the fuel coming in at 14.1 bike footpegs etc all feel so much smoother, so I would certainly agree it might be something to do with the ECU, and for sure at 22000 miles valve clearances should be checked, if not been done already, but as Warlord righly says harmonics are a pain to find, can even come from an exhaust silencer bolt not tightened enough, or metal touching metal somewhere, panniers on racks etc.
 
CPJS said:
This phenomenon is quite well known, I don't know what percentage of bikes are affected but there are quite a few.
The vibration presents itself as a pulsing/ thrumming most commonly in 4th gear between 2750 and 3750rpm, it is coming from the gearbox as it is engine not road speed related.
It is present when the engine is under light load, most noticable if you put the bike in 4th gear at 3250rpm on cruise control.

My previous '14 GS did it badly enough to be very intrusive and really spoilt the riding experience so I PXed it for my current '17 GS.
With the '14 bike it started at about 6000mls and got progressively worse till 18000mls when I PXed it.
The current bike does it too a lesser degree that I can live with, now at 23000mls, didn't start vibrating untill 12000mls.

Unfortunately It will not go away, I believe it is a resonant harmonic that would only be resolved by a small gearbox change, I don't know what it would take, it cant be much as does not affect all bikes.
The dealers will say either "I have never heard of this before" or "they all do that" depending on who you speak to.
Click to expand...

This nails it. These are my symptoms exactly.

As much as I don't mind getting my hands dirty with a little bit of service and maintenance, gearbox work would be way beyond me unfortunately.

Warlord said:
Gotchas are:-

a) When refilling oil it's easy to overfill. About 200ml gets caught up in the clutch housing sometimes and doesn't drain into the sight glass. So you can keep adding more until sight glass is at correct level, then in the morning it'll be overfilled. I usually fill about 3.5 litres, turn the engine over to warm up, leave it on it's sidestand for a while to drain then put it back on centrestand, check oil level and top up... but monitor quantity not more then 4 litres total.

b) When taking oil filter off the bike oil will spew all over your exhaust pipes directly below it. Wrap some tin foil around it to keep the oil off. Then carefully remove tin foil when your finished.

c) The final drive filler bolts are low torque and the threads need to be DRY before retorqueing. If they are still wet with oil you risk over torqueing them and can strip the threads.

d) When dropping the final drive it's heavy. I use a small scissor jack underneath it to hold the weight. You can then fine tune its height better when realigning the splines.

e) When dropping the final drive, if its rusted together, the shaft drive will be pulled backwards and may pop off the gearbox end mount. This creates a very annoying problem... you now have to either...

i) Try and push it back onto the gearbox end until it 'clicks' into place (extremely difficult)... and leave it all alone.

ii) Unbolt the final drive from the swing arm and pull it all out together (final drive and swingarm). It'll then need seperating on a workbench.

f) When refitting all the rubber boots, if you regrease top and bottom boots so they're airtight... pressure can build up in the swingarm. You need to allow an airgap for pressure variations.

Good luck :)
Click to expand...

Warlord thanks for the detailed advice, some incredible tips there. Glad I asked! You have definitely saved me a lot of stress :yelrotflm

Smogbob said:
I know i will get shot down for this, but might as well say it and let the its Subjective crew jump onboard, I had vibes in the footpegs, I would not say bad enough to ruin my ride, so since I have installed the AF-XIED,s and have the fuel coming in at 14.1 bike footpegs etc all feel so much smoother, so I would certainly agree it might be something to do with the ECU, and for sure at 22000 miles valve clearances should be checked, if not been done already, but as Warlord righly says harmonics are a pain to find, can even come from an exhaust silencer bolt not tightened enough, or metal touching metal somewhere, panniers on racks etc.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't shoot down anything, thanks for the suggestion. CPJS' post above really explains the symptoms and the theory of it being gearbox related really rings true with me from the feel I get from the bike and how the frequency of the vibration changes with RPM and gear.

Valve clearances will be due again at 24,000 miles which isn't far away now. I was considering going for an extendable warranty but I think the money would be better kept for any possible failure stemming from this issue. As I doubt BMW will stand behind this issue and would say its down to rider error.
 
NomadLad said:
I'm sure its developed a droning vibe between 3 and 4 thousand rpm in 3rd,
Click to expand...

Four engines over both my GSs (2015, 2017) have done this. This characteristic has been raised on here a number of times. I'm running in a new engine on my 2017 bike and it was doing it yesterday. The original engine did it, as did both engines in its 2015 predecessor.
 
NomadLad said:
I've had my GS for just over 2 years. It's a 2016 with 22,000 miles on it.

I came pretty close to selling it, but I've come to the conclusion that it's set up just the way I want it and it's the best all round bike in the world.

My issues though, I'm sure its developed a droning vibe between 3 and 4 thousand rpm in 3rd, 4th, a little in 5th gear. When droning in 4th at those rpm, if I shift to 5th, the droning frequency increases by double if that helps?

The bike is 100% aside from that.

I'm planning to do an oil change, final drive oil change and re-grease in the next few days... any suggestions about other things I might check while rooting around? It's my first time doing any work on the GS too.

It's always been serviced to schedule by BMW but as far as I know they dont regrease the drive shaft.

If I cant locate and fix the vibe I'm either going to trade it for an XR or get the extendable warranty.... not sure which yet.

Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just a thought, if you grease the shaft, do not coat it to death in grease, just a little thin bit, as the thick grease will keep the heat in the shaft, that will lead to oil getting hot, BMW hardly put any grease, reason is to let the heat escape from the metal.
 
NomadLad said:
This nails it. These are my symptoms exactly.

Valve clearances will be due again at 24,000 miles which isn't far away now. I was considering going for an extendable warranty but I think the money would be better kept for any possible failure stemming from this issue. As I doubt BMW will stand behind this issue and would say its down to rider error.
Click to expand...

It's not the valves clearance, been there done that, greased the shaft splines and all the other stuff that people mention. My bike has been Hilltopped and is smooth as silk. This issue has been around since the LC was released, it is a design flaw, I have not heard of it becoming terminal.
some people say " oh that, it doesn't bother me" and others like yourself and me it does bother. It comes down to 'suck it up' or trade it in.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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