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Thread: To indicate or not to, that is true question

  1. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post

    I re-iterate, a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working

    Only whilst its illuminated, when off you have no idea its working, until it illuminates again.

  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrick View Post
    I sometimes indicate left just so people know i i am not turning right

    I’m a minimalist Indicator, but I tend to do this too.

    At 3 way roundabouts - only with other road users around - I ain’t turning 1st left, so I’ll signal right ‘cos I’m taking the other exit.

    There are 2 such roundabouts very near me and the number of people who don’t signal at all then do or don’t take the 1st exit while I’m swearing at them “where the fuck are you going? - I could have been away there”
    Carpe Diem!

  3. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxerboy55 View Post
    ..... and the number of people who don’t signal at all then do or don’t take the 1st exit while I’m swearing at them “where the fuck are you going? - I could have been away there”
    So you would pull out on to a roundabout with someone coming from your right with an indicator on?

    I wouldn't .... see my post above.
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  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    So you would pull out on to a roundabout with someone coming from your right with an indicator on?

    I wouldn't .... see my post above.
    Ditto

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    Young kid on a motorbike at a T junction at Canklow, Rotherham, waiting to pull out and turn right. BMW car comes in to view under the bridge, to his right, with left hand indicator on, kid thinks he's turning in to the road he's emerging from so pulls out ...


    B A N G ! ! !


    The car had turned left off the roundabout and gone under the bridge, self cancelling indicators hadn't self cancelled

    Kid was OK, learnt a lesson, car driver picked the tab up for the repairs to the 'bike (still rideable)

    I re-iterate, a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working

    a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working

    Thats the exact same words as Roddy Benzies the former Tullyalan Police college, chief instructor used. Ive never forgotten it.
    "I arrive. I see... is possible. I go fast. I WIN!" - Valentino Rossi"

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    So you would pull out on to a roundabout with someone coming from your right with an indicator on?

    I wouldn't .... see my post above.
    No, no, no. I’m with you on waiting to see what they’re actually doing before I move - but - I’d really appreciate a hint along the way. And I was referring specifically to little 3 way roundabouts that I use regularly, but you only selected a portion of my text.
    Carpe Diem!

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblertone View Post
    Quite simply, the virtue is not in not indicating but in making a conscious decision after assessing the situation.
    This...

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    I never bother indicating .... keep the feckers guessing

    I know what I'm doing, and I know what they are doing before they do ...

    ... a flashing indicator means only one thing in my book ... the bulb is working

    And this


  8. #56
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    I did an early version of what could be called bike / car safe back in the 80's

    The first scenario & Q/A session was right turns.

    The first scenario was talk yourself through a right turn in rush hour.

    The second was talk yourself through the same right turn at 2 AM ?

    Everyone without fail covered the basics, and the condensed version was "mirror signal maneuver"

    To which plod asked why do you indicate at 2am when theres virtually no traffic around?

    To which we all replied "habit or its automatic"

    The reponse from plod was, if your driving to "habit" or "automatically", your not thinking about what your doing ...

    Every action behind the wheel should have a decision behind it.

    If theres no one who needs to see a signal or will benefit from a signal . then dont do it.

    It's one less item youve got to add into a list of decisions your making at that time.


    And the other thing they added, was once youve made a decision,

    go with it. Because if you start to question the decision, or try to change it, its too late.

  9. #57
    The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

    So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

    As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

    My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

    Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer!

    Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

    Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

    If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


    (*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.


  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

    So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

    As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

    My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

    Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer!

    Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

    Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

    If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


    (*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

    That's a nice write up, thanks Giles.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

    So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

    As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

    My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

    Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer!

    Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

    Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

    If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


    (*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

    Thank you for writing this.

    I have always said the only difference an advanced driver has is that they think beforehand not afterwards.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    I never bother indicating .... keep the feckers guessing

    I know what I'm doing, and I know what they are doing before they do ...

    ... a flashing indicator means only one thing in my book ... the bulb is working

    Intermittently

  13. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

    So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

    As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

    My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

    Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer!

    Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

    Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

    If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


    (*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

    Summed it up very nicely Giles.
    "I arrive. I see... is possible. I go fast. I WIN!" - Valentino Rossi"

  14. #62
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    If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.
    I had exactly that scenario on my RospA test. The examiner, a copper from Chelmsford (before Essex scrapped their bikes *) explained to me that he’d conduct the test by using his indicators to show which direction he’d want me to take at junctions, three fingers up for the third exit on a roundabout etc etc meaning I had to make good use of my mirrors in good time, obviously.

    Anyway, off we went into the wilds of Essex. At some point or other we approached a completely open give way only T-Junction which anyone could see had no traffic on it for maybe three hundred yards in any direction, other than the pair of us. The examiner indicated in plenty of time that I should turn left, fair enough, that’s what I’ll do and on we went.

    At the debrief, he asked my why, when we got to the junction, I hadn’t indicated. I said, “There was nobody in sight in any direction for me to indicate to”. He then said, “What about me, Richard?” I said, “But you told me, very clearly, at the briefing before we left, to ride for myself and that you were not there. If you are not there and nobody else is, I can’t inform anyone that I’m turning left”. He gave me a look, just for a moment, and then said, “Very good answer”. Happy days.





    * I think they have brought them back now?

  15. #63
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    I remember you telling me that Micky. Many years ago!

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