To indicate or not to, that is true question

Just indicate

It builds the habit and becomes second nature

Thereby lies the problem :blast

Just indicate as a matter of habit, no thought as to what is going on around you, done my bit ... I've indicated :blast

No need to even look around you ... I indicated ... done my bit, over to you buddy :rob

Manoeuvre, signal, mirror .... bus drivers :D

:beerjug:
 
Thereby lies the problem :blast

Just indicate as a matter of habit, no thought as to what is going on around you, done my bit ... I've indicated :blast

No need to even look around you ... I indicated ... done my bit, over to you buddy :rob

Manoeuvre, signal, mirror .... bus drivers :D

:beerjug:

Aye Micky I see what you say, what I actually Should have written was

"Check (mirrors /Shoulder check / etc) that you are preppared and safe, to commence/undertake whatever manoeuvre that you are about to do and Indicate appropriately"

That is what I really meant to say

Anyone who just bangs on an indicator is asking for trouble please refer to the above ;)

AS to the bus you guys would not believe the number of blind spots

12 tonnes 40 foot long 8 foot 6 wide shoebox shape with steering axle in the wrong place

I don;t think I will ever be able to get back to driving a rigid truck again!
 
What if there’s no traffic and your thumb’s aching?
 
I use indicators perhaps more often than many here...
It does develop a muscle memory but it does not replace the other actions necessary for safe progress.
No harm in doing what one can to keep others informed of what your intentions may be.
Also pretty certain that none ever said, I saw you indicating so I pulled into the area you were indicating towards. But perhaps there have been occasions where the opposite is true!

Nothing replaces the fact that you are generally the master of your own destiny so I see no problem giving others as much indication of your intentions- it’s Hartley going to put anyone into information overload.

And as for leaving them on, mine self cancel , don’t yours?
 
I only ever indicate if it will be of benefit to other road users, that includes pedestrians on any adjacent pavements. If im approaching a junction that is difficult to see out of i will indicate but otherwise NO, i dont do it by rote !!
 
Young kid on a motorbike at a T junction at Canklow, Rotherham, waiting to pull out and turn right. BMW car comes in to view under the bridge, to his right, with left hand indicator on, kid thinks he's turning in to the road he's emerging from so pulls out ...


B A N G ! ! !


The car had turned left off the roundabout and gone under the bridge, self cancelling indicators hadn't self cancelled :blast

Kid was OK, learnt a lesson, car driver picked the tab up for the repairs to the 'bike (still rideable)

I re-iterate, a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working :D

:beerjug:
 
I sometimes indicate left just so people know i i am not turning right


I’m a minimalist Indicator, but I tend to do this too.

At 3 way roundabouts - only with other road users around - I ain’t turning 1st left, so I’ll signal right ‘cos I’m taking the other exit.

There are 2 such roundabouts very near me and the number of people who don’t signal at all then do or don’t take the 1st exit while I’m swearing at them “where the fuck are you going? - I could have been away there” :)
 
..... and the number of people who don’t signal at all then do or don’t take the 1st exit while I’m swearing at them “where the fuck are you going? - I could have been away there” :)

So you would pull out on to a roundabout with someone coming from your right with an indicator on?

I wouldn't .... see my post above.
 
Young kid on a motorbike at a T junction at Canklow, Rotherham, waiting to pull out and turn right. BMW car comes in to view under the bridge, to his right, with left hand indicator on, kid thinks he's turning in to the road he's emerging from so pulls out ...


B A N G ! ! !


The car had turned left off the roundabout and gone under the bridge, self cancelling indicators hadn't self cancelled :blast

Kid was OK, learnt a lesson, car driver picked the tab up for the repairs to the 'bike (still rideable)

I re-iterate, a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working :D

:beerjug:
a flashing indicator only ever means one thing .... the bulb is working

Thats the exact same words as Roddy Benzies the former Tullyalan Police college, chief instructor used. Ive never forgotten it.
 
So you would pull out on to a roundabout with someone coming from your right with an indicator on?

I wouldn't .... see my post above.

No, no, no. I’m with you on waiting to see what they’re actually doing before I move - but - I’d really appreciate a hint along the way. And I was referring specifically to little 3 way roundabouts that I use regularly, but you only selected a portion of my text.
 
Quite simply, the virtue is not in not indicating but in making a conscious decision after assessing the situation.

This...

I never bother indicating .... keep the feckers guessing :D

I know what I'm doing, and I know what they are doing before they do ...

... a flashing indicator means only one thing in my book ... the bulb is working :rob

:beerjug:

And this

:thumb2
 
I did an early version of what could be called bike / car safe back in the 80's

The first scenario & Q/A session was right turns.

The first scenario was talk yourself through a right turn in rush hour.

The second was talk yourself through the same right turn at 2 AM ?

Everyone without fail covered the basics, and the condensed version was "mirror signal maneuver"

To which plod asked why do you indicate at 2am when theres virtually no traffic around?

To which we all replied "habit or its automatic"

The reponse from plod was, if your driving to "habit" or "automatically", your not thinking about what your doing ...

Every action behind the wheel should have a decision behind it.

If theres no one who needs to see a signal or will benefit from a signal . then dont do it.

It's one less item youve got to add into a list of decisions your making at that time.


And the other thing they added, was once youve made a decision,

go with it. Because if you start to question the decision, or try to change it, its too late.
 
The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer! :D

Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


(*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

:beerjug:
 
The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer! :D

Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


(*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

:beerjug:
That's a nice write up, thanks Giles.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 
The best riders, are thinking riders. Their style is hopefully like the proverbial swan on the water - lovely flow, quietly efficient, nothing seems hurried or rushed whatever the pace, but their brain is always working and thinking, it's just that like the swan's feet, you don't see it.

So (*nearly) nothing, should be a black and white 'I do this', and everything should be a 'what's the best thing to do here'.

As a result, you could find scenarios on the road that are almost identical to one another, but in one situation you'll do one thing, and in another situation you'll maybe do something else.

My personal battle with a lot of the observers and RoSPA / IAM riders that I see, is getting them to move on to the next level where riding moves from 'dot to dot' / 'paint by numbers' very systematic riding, to a 'wholistic' approach for want of a better word. A style that is still systemised, but it's not set by a rule book - the rule book is now well and truly thrown away.

Black and white answers to any of these questions, is .... the wrong answer! :D

Somebody asks, 'should I show a brake light?'. The answer to that is, Maybe? Whose behind you? How long has he been behind you? Have you noticed something in particular about him? Is he up your arse? what car is it? Is he on the phone? And so on and so on.

Sometimes I might add a hand signal to back something up, because my gut instinct says its the right thing to do here. Sometimes (scenario above) I very deliberately indicate for a good few seconds before showing a brake light - deliberately separating the two bulbs so my intentions are very clear. Ever think about something like that on a sunny day ?? (Think about things like a Mondeo with its circular brake light and indicator light in the middle, and a driver indicating and braking at the same time).

If you were on an IAM / RoSPA test, and you had the above mindset, any examiner worth his salt would hopefully say to you afterwards 'I like the fact that you're clearly a thinking rider - I noticed how you didn't indicate in W, X, y scenario, but you did in Z because of A, B, C factors' Good! Good to see you thinking about stuff'.


(*nearly); I try and ride with very few chess moves. Pretty much everything is 'What's the best thing to do here', 'whats the best way to achieve what I want here'. I do have one or two Default, black and white chess moves and looking over my shoulder as I join a motorway / dual-carriageway from a slip (car or bike) for example, is one of them.

:beerjug:
Thank you for writing this.

I have always said the only difference an advanced driver has is that they think beforehand not afterwards.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
I never bother indicating .... keep the feckers guessing :D

I know what I'm doing, and I know what they are doing before they do ...

... a flashing indicator means only one thing in my book ... the bulb is working :rob

:beerjug:

Intermittently
 


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