Question time on oil!

Rugged Path

Rugged Path

The Honourable.
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Is it true to say that with using synthetic oils, more oil consumption is possible?
Albeit I mostly park / store my bike on side stand, I seem to use more oil than my friend on his 1150.


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Rugged Path said:
Is it true to say that with using synthetic oils, more oil consumption is possible?
Albeit I mostly park / store my bike on side stand, I seem to use more oil than my friend on his 1150.


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On an oil/air head; the clearances/tolerances are slightly bigger so a high quality mineral oil or semi synthetic is better for your engine.

More so that your oil only deals with the engine so there is no benefit from using a fully synthetic oil. Further depending upon the mileage, using a 20/50 rather than a 10-40 may reduce the oil consumption as it has a higher viscosity, (flows slower). Although if it gets below around -10°c I'd change to a 10/40, but would you be riding in that weather ?

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Lots of informed info here.

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/t-car-motorbike-engine-oil-grades-viscosity-explained.aspx

I've run an 1150 for 68K it uses very little oil now as long as i dont fill it beyond half way up the sight glass, If I do it ends up in the airbox. Consumption is about 3-500ml between oil changes 6k so around 50-80ml per 1000 miles. It consumed over twice this up to 20K then consumption was much reduced. I use whatever 10-50 synthetic oil is on offer at eurocarparts that meets/exceeds the spec in the manual and this can be cheaper than a mineral 20-50 such as the good quality Valvoline that Eurocarparts supply (particularly for tuned A series engine). Probably overkill but it makes cold starts easier (and provides better initial lubrication) Also synthetics tend to hold on to their viscosity better between services and/or when an engine is thrashed. :)
 
Tractors are go said:
On an oil/air head; the clearances/tolerances are slightly bigger so a high quality mineral oil or semi synthetic is better for your engine.

More so that your oil only deals with the engine so there is no benefit from using a fully synthetic oil. Further depending upon the mileage, using a 20/50 rather than a 10-40 may reduce the oil consumption as it has a higher viscosity, (flows slower). Although if it gets below around -10°c I'd change to a 10/40, but would you be riding in that weather ?

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So why do they use fully synthetic in car engines then? :confused:
 
JJH said:
At a guess it’s to extend the oil change interval. JJH
Click to expand...

So why wouldn't it have a benefit in the bike with no integral gearbox? The 180-degree Vee twin BMW is just a small car motor in effect.
 
Yes and you could change the oil at 20,000miles. But and there’s always a but. Look at where the red line starts on your bike and now your car. How many petrol cars have 600cc pots. Or run such a high compression ratio? To describe it as a small car engine is not correct. It’s actually half or a third of a big car engine in a relatively higher state of tune. Most car engines would rely on a turbo or super charger to obtain the same relative output. Not all but most. I’d change my oil as per service schedule or there about. JJH
 
King Rat said:
So why do they use fully synthetic in car engines then? :confused:
Click to expand...
Most car engines, do not have an integral gearbox, which is exceptionally hard on oils.

The main benefit is longer oil changes, so that servicing costs came down, and the ease to manufacturer oil to specific viscosity for specific engines ie 5W30 for the Mondeo.

In a high revving engine, and one designed to benefit from the advantages of synthetic it is worthwhile Honda claimed an extra 4bhp on the rcv with a dedicated oil.

Is it worthwhile on an air/oilhead; slightly, but the cost benefit ratio isn't.

For an LC or a Shift cam, which have integral gearboxs then the cost benefit is worthwhile.

When you consider how much an engine costs to replace compared to changing the oil/filter every 6K or 6 months it is far cheaper.

Main dealers are taking the piss with what they charge per litre, and their misleading claims, any oil to SAE SJ (for example) specification is just as good.

Also, it is easier/cheaper/more profitable for the dealers to stock just one oil. Does a 2009 hexhead require the same oil as a 2019 S1000rr, why would a main dealer do so ?

What was the specification listed in the owners manual for a 2009 hexhead, if the oil is such better quality, why has the service life not increased commensurately.

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JJH said:
Yes and you could change the oil at 20,000miles. But and there’s always a but. Look at where the red line starts on your bike and now your car. How many petrol cars have 600cc pots. Or run such a high compression ratio? To describe it as a small car engine is not correct. It’s actually half or a third of a big car engine in a relatively higher state of tune. Most car engines would rely on a turbo or super charger to obtain the same relative output. Not all but most. I’d change my oil as per service schedule or there about. JJH
Click to expand...


I don't think my 1150 has ever seen 5000rpm. I change way sooner than that and cruise on A roads at about 3000 - 3500 and motorway 4000, in top. The 1150 is actually about 1130, but it only has about 75hp at the utmost, so even at full power it is only 70hp/litre, hardly a 'high state of tune'. I doubt I ever use more than about 50hp of the available output and cruising she is probably only using about 30hp-35hp to maintain momentum. Perhaps that is why my bikes do such high mileages on original components and remain reliable... ? :duno
 
King Rat said:
I don't think my 1150 has ever seen 5000rpm. I change way sooner than that and cruise on A roads at about 3000 - 3500 and motorway 4000, in top. The 1150 is actually about 1130, but it only has about 75hp at the utmost, so even at full power it is only 70hp/litre, hardly a 'high state of tune'. I doubt I ever use more than about 50hp of the available output and cruising she is probably only using about 30hp-35hp to maintain momentum. Perhaps that is why my bikes do such high mileages on original components and remain reliable... ? :duno
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with you to an extent but I’d look at the capability of the engine. I’d look at like tyers. You don’t use lower speed rated tyers just because you never go over 70. 70bhp per liter is not to be sniffed at for a twin of 20 years ago with a basic design of many years earlier. The manufacturers have to quote for everyone and can’t say if you only do x and not y and z you can vary the oil spec or service interval or whatever. I agree with what you say about reliability having had a 1150 rt myself. JJH
 
King Rat said:
I don't think my 1150 has ever seen 5000rpm. I change way sooner than that and cruise on A roads at about 3000 - 3500 and motorway 4000, in top. The 1150 is actually about 1130, but it only has about 75hp at the utmost, so even at full power it is only 70hp/litre, hardly a 'high state of tune'. I doubt I ever use more than about 50hp of the available output and cruising she is probably only using about 30hp-35hp to maintain momentum. Perhaps that is why my bikes do such high mileages on original components and remain reliable... ? :duno
Click to expand...

Of course you will hear people saying that not using the entire rev range and giving it some every so often is bad for the engine. I’m not in that camp although I like to let her rip now and again. JJH
 
King Rat said:
I don't think my 1150 has ever seen 5000rpm. I change way sooner than that and cruise on A roads at about 3000 - 3500 and motorway 4000, in top. The 1150 is actually about 1130, but it only has about 75hp at the utmost, so even at full power it is only 70hp/litre, hardly a 'high state of tune'. I doubt I ever use more than about 50hp of the available output and cruising she is probably only using about 30hp-35hp to maintain momentum. Perhaps that is why my bikes do such high mileages on original components and remain reliable... ? :duno
Click to expand...

You have a lot of surplus engine left there KR; but reading about the milages you have done; something must be working right for you.
 
snelly said:
You have a lot of surplus engine left there KR; but reading about the milages you have done; something must be working right for you.
Click to expand...

Having had qualms bout being able ot manage the thing last week I rode up to Orkney on her. 4 days riding I covered 1834 miles, loaded. From my sister on the north end of Skye I had lunch then left for home here in Staffordshire at 13.15, actual leg over and clutch out. Stopped in Broadford to brim the tank, then again in Dumbarton so I had a full tank to cross the moors from Glasgow to Carlisle, it actually got me from Dumbarton to home, with 25 miles of fuel light on, but I knew what was ahead and that there was sufficient. I am much more confident again now - thanks to the good folks on here encouragement. The hockey puck is brilliant, it really does make a difference.
 
King Rat said:
Having had qualms bout being able ot manage the thing last week I rode up to Orkney on her. 4 days riding I covered 1834 miles, loaded. From my sister on the north end of Skye I had lunch then left for home here in Staffordshire at 13.15, actual leg over and clutch out. Stopped in Broadford to brim the tank, then again in Dumbarton so I had a full tank to cross the moors from Glasgow to Carlisle, it actually got me from Dumbarton to home, with 25 miles of fuel light on, but I knew what was ahead and that there was sufficient. I am much more confident again now - thanks to the good folks on here encouragement. The hockey puck is brilliant, it really does make a difference.
Click to expand...

The best thing about losing your mo jo is getting it back; nice one.:beerjug:
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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