My R1150GS Won't Start. Local (Non-BMW) Bike Shop Struggling To Diagnose - Options?
- Thread starter PhaedrusMC
- Start date
The update here is that there's no update...
Some of ye have been messaging me to see what's happening - I'm not ignoring you and I'm not taking for granted your offers of help.
The shop has still not sorted my bike - in agreement with me they put it off till things quietened down for them. I have the XT, so I'm not stuck without a bike.
They've done what sounds like every check and test they can do, having decades of their own experience in all makes of bike (but comparatively little with BMWs), and have called on the expertise of BMW resources in both IRL and UK.
Not HES.
Not TPS.
No spark because of no pulse signal to the ignition coil.
Email from the shop:
"...the reason why your bike is not sparking is your bike is not generating a pulse signal to the ignition coil.
This is actually quite hard to diagnose on a BMW as the ignition coil has a constant 12v feed once the ignition is on (ie it doesn’t work like a jap machine)
You cant diagnose the pulse signal with a multimeter or even a test light (we have tried both) With a homemade LED bulb after blowing 3 of them we where able to compare the silver one to yours. Your bike is not generate any pulse signal when the engine is being turned over with the starter.
So where is this signal generated, its generated by the upper part of the hes sensor on the front of the engine, we already tested yours as you know and it was reading fine on our diagnostic tool, but we then double checked by putting on your one on the bike and also your old one on the silver bike and they are both generating spark on it, so they are working.
We have check your motronic unit, motronic relay, ignition coils, as well as ever other relay onto the silver bike and they are all working perfectly on it, bike is sparking away. We will spend a little more time at it tomorrow, if I still cant find the broken wire, your bike needs a wiring loom as far as I can make out.
The signal from the hes sensor on the front of the bike is getting lost along the loom somewhere with what only I can imagine to be a broken wire as all you other external component test fine on the silver bike, we have also traced the loom the whole way along, we cant see any damage along it."
They're convinced that the problem is some wiring at/from/to/near the HES, and have suggested I source a wiring loom.
If someone on here fully understands the content of that email (I don't) you might have an opinion or suggestion or some advice?
The coffee date resulted in another coffee date, and a dinner date, and some walks on the beach, and... well... things are just good...
Some of ye have been messaging me to see what's happening - I'm not ignoring you and I'm not taking for granted your offers of help.
The shop has still not sorted my bike - in agreement with me they put it off till things quietened down for them. I have the XT, so I'm not stuck without a bike.
They've done what sounds like every check and test they can do, having decades of their own experience in all makes of bike (but comparatively little with BMWs), and have called on the expertise of BMW resources in both IRL and UK.
Not HES.
Not TPS.
No spark because of no pulse signal to the ignition coil.
Email from the shop:
"...the reason why your bike is not sparking is your bike is not generating a pulse signal to the ignition coil.
This is actually quite hard to diagnose on a BMW as the ignition coil has a constant 12v feed once the ignition is on (ie it doesn’t work like a jap machine)
You cant diagnose the pulse signal with a multimeter or even a test light (we have tried both) With a homemade LED bulb after blowing 3 of them we where able to compare the silver one to yours. Your bike is not generate any pulse signal when the engine is being turned over with the starter.
So where is this signal generated, its generated by the upper part of the hes sensor on the front of the engine, we already tested yours as you know and it was reading fine on our diagnostic tool, but we then double checked by putting on your one on the bike and also your old one on the silver bike and they are both generating spark on it, so they are working.
We have check your motronic unit, motronic relay, ignition coils, as well as ever other relay onto the silver bike and they are all working perfectly on it, bike is sparking away. We will spend a little more time at it tomorrow, if I still cant find the broken wire, your bike needs a wiring loom as far as I can make out.
The signal from the hes sensor on the front of the bike is getting lost along the loom somewhere with what only I can imagine to be a broken wire as all you other external component test fine on the silver bike, we have also traced the loom the whole way along, we cant see any damage along it."
They're convinced that the problem is some wiring at/from/to/near the HES, and have suggested I source a wiring loom.
If someone on here fully understands the content of that email (I don't) you might have an opinion or suggestion or some advice?
The coffee date resulted in another coffee date, and a dinner date, and some walks on the beach, and... well... things are just good...
Deleted account 200123001
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Isn't there a common problem with wiring breaks at the headstock area.
So, good news and not so +ve on the bike.The update here is that there's no update...
Some of ye have been messaging me to see what's happening - I'm not ignoring you and I'm not taking for granted your offers of help.
The shop has still not sorted my bike - in agreement with me they put it off till things quietened down for them. I have the XT, so I'm not stuck without a bike.
They've done what sounds like every check and test they can do, having decades of their own experience in all makes of bike (but comparatively little with BMWs), and have called on the expertise of BMW resources in both IRL and UK.
Not HES.
Not TPS.
No spark because of no pulse signal to the ignition coil.
Email from the shop:
"...the reason why your bike is not sparking is your bike is not generating a pulse signal to the ignition coil.
This is actually quite hard to diagnose on a BMW as the ignition coil has a constant 12v feed once the ignition is on (ie it doesn’t work like a jap machine)
You cant diagnose the pulse signal with a multimeter or even a test light (we have tried both) With a homemade LED bulb after blowing 3 of them we where able to compare the silver one to yours. Your bike is not generate any pulse signal when the engine is being turned over with the starter.
So where is this signal generated, its generated by the upper part of the hes sensor on the front of the engine, we already tested yours as you know and it was reading fine on our diagnostic tool, but we then double checked by putting on your one on the bike and also your old one on the silver bike and they are both generating spark on it, so they are working.
We have check your motronic unit, motronic relay, ignition coils, as well as ever other relay onto the silver bike and they are all working perfectly on it, bike is sparking away. We will spend a little more time at it tomorrow, if I still cant find the broken wire, your bike needs a wiring loom as far as I can make out.
The signal from the hes sensor on the front of the bike is getting lost along the loom somewhere with what only I can imagine to be a broken wire as all you other external component test fine on the silver bike, we have also traced the loom the whole way along, we cant see any damage along it."
They're convinced that the problem is some wiring at/from/to/near the HES, and have suggested I source a wiring loom.
If someone on here fully understands the content of that email (I don't) you might have an opinion or suggestion or some advice?
The coffee date resulted in another coffee date, and a dinner date, and some walks on the beach, and... well... things are just good...
At least being able to swap components onto another bike is ruling out most of the obvious things.
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
So lucky having a second bike as a test mule. It's one thing putting a meter across a component and seeing that it 'should' be working - it's quite another swapping it into another bike and actually seeing it function under proper conditions. You will track the issue down.
In other news, great to hear about the coffee dates!!
In other news, great to hear about the coffee dates!!
Mark, could they run temporary wire from HES to check?
They may be correct in a wiring glitch but you do not need a new loom. As Bin says run a wire to test - if that works slide that wire through some light plastic tubing (extra insulation) & bind it neatly along existing loom & you are sorted. That worked for me when the wire from the starter button to the starter relay fractured.
I'm sure they'll do that Laurence - they're fitting me in in between fully-paid jobs. At this rate I daren't imagine the cost if they were charging me full rate...
After being single for the last 9 years, these dates are very welcome...
After being single for the last 9 years, these dates are very welcome...
B Murr
Registered user
This palaver reminds me if when I tried to help a friend get his r100rs started. No spark. Seemed simple but all components seemed to test ok, turned out it was a cracked wire somewhere. I was thinking that it was just as well we weren't in some remote part of Africa, we'd still be there, or the bike would be thrown in a river out of frustration and we'd have been on a bus.
Dealer has asked if I can source/borrow an ECU from a single-spark bike. He tried my (single-spark) ECU on the other 1150GS (twin-spark) he has in the shop - mine fired the bottom plugs on the other bike. He's wondering if mine shouldn't have fired the main plugs?
Thanks Ollie. I'll contact him in the morning. 
Bike is sorted and ready to collect... 
So... what was the problem? The following is my understanding of what I was told on the phone...
Bike wouldn't re-start on the button after a 5-minute stop half-way through a 150km ride. Wouldn't re-start using an AntiGravity XP-1 jumper. Did start with a push/bump.
Got home, turned bike off, wouldn't re-start. Swapped out OEM started motor for new non-OEM starter motor bought on here just a few weeks earlier - a purely coincidental JIC purchase. Bike still wouldn't re-start.
Bike dropped to dealer, who tried everything he could think of, including freeing-off the sticking bendix on the new non-OEM starter motor I fitted to the bike. This didn't sort the problem. Only this week did they free off the sticking bendix on the OEM starter motor and swap this back in for the non-OEM one. Bike started.
The original problem was caused by the sticking bendix on the OEM starter. This was missed as I had fitted the new non-OEM starter before I gave the bike to the dealer. They copped the sticking bendix in that and freed it off, but only learned this week that for some yet-to-be-explained reason that new non-OEM starter isn't compatible with my bike.
They can't figure out why. They're hoping (as am I) that they will figure that out. But in the meantime, my bike is ready, after 18 or so hours of bench time.
A coincidental failure of the OEM starter bendix, and the new non-OEM starter also having a sticking bendix (and its apparent incompatibility with my bike) led to some wrong assumptions and dead-end wrong-tree troubleshooting.
The bike has had the most thorough going-over, having multiple connector blocks stripped and cleaned, my FuzeBlock disconnected and reconnected properly, wiring for auxiliary stuff removed and replaced properly, a new battery, valve clearances checked (only one needed adjustment), HES, TPS, ECU, injectors, etc. all checked and confirmed good... dealer says it's running sweet again and is a fine example of a great bike...
I'll learn today Friday what the bill will be...
Thanks to everyone for the offers of assist, and loans of bikes, and suggestions for troubleshooting. Remarkable forum, and you guys are all genuine gents.
Pints on me at the next event *...
* Once my wallet recovers from the bill...
So... what was the problem? The following is my understanding of what I was told on the phone...
Bike wouldn't re-start on the button after a 5-minute stop half-way through a 150km ride. Wouldn't re-start using an AntiGravity XP-1 jumper. Did start with a push/bump.
Got home, turned bike off, wouldn't re-start. Swapped out OEM started motor for new non-OEM starter motor bought on here just a few weeks earlier - a purely coincidental JIC purchase. Bike still wouldn't re-start.
Bike dropped to dealer, who tried everything he could think of, including freeing-off the sticking bendix on the new non-OEM starter motor I fitted to the bike. This didn't sort the problem. Only this week did they free off the sticking bendix on the OEM starter motor and swap this back in for the non-OEM one. Bike started.
The original problem was caused by the sticking bendix on the OEM starter. This was missed as I had fitted the new non-OEM starter before I gave the bike to the dealer. They copped the sticking bendix in that and freed it off, but only learned this week that for some yet-to-be-explained reason that new non-OEM starter isn't compatible with my bike.
They can't figure out why. They're hoping (as am I) that they will figure that out. But in the meantime, my bike is ready, after 18 or so hours of bench time.
A coincidental failure of the OEM starter bendix, and the new non-OEM starter also having a sticking bendix (and its apparent incompatibility with my bike) led to some wrong assumptions and dead-end wrong-tree troubleshooting.
The bike has had the most thorough going-over, having multiple connector blocks stripped and cleaned, my FuzeBlock disconnected and reconnected properly, wiring for auxiliary stuff removed and replaced properly, a new battery, valve clearances checked (only one needed adjustment), HES, TPS, ECU, injectors, etc. all checked and confirmed good... dealer says it's running sweet again and is a fine example of a great bike...
I'll learn today Friday what the bill will be...
Thanks to everyone for the offers of assist, and loans of bikes, and suggestions for troubleshooting. Remarkable forum, and you guys are all genuine gents.
Pints on me at the next event *...
* Once my wallet recovers from the bill...
Bike is sorted and ready to collect...
So... what was the problem? The following is my understanding of what I was told on the phone...
Bike wouldn't re-start on the button after a 5-minute stop half-way through a 150km ride. Wouldn't re-start using an AntiGravity XP-1 jumper. Did start with a push/bump.
Got home, turned bike off, wouldn't re-start. Swapped out OEM started motor for new non-OEM starter motor bought on here just a few weeks earlier - a purely coincidental JIC purchase. Bike still wouldn't re-start.
Bike dropped to dealer, who tried everything he could think of, including freeing-off the sticking bendix on the new non-OEM starter motor I fitted to the bike. This didn't sort the problem. Only this week did they free off the sticking bendix on the OEM starter motor and swap this back in for the non-OEM one. Bike started.
The original problem was caused by the sticking bendix on the OEM starter. This was missed as I had fitted the new non-OEM starter before I gave the bike to the dealer. They copped the sticking bendix in that and freed it off, but only learned this week that for some yet-to-be-explained reason that new non-OEM starter isn't compatible with my bike.
They can't figure out why. They're hoping (as am I) that they will figure that out. But in the meantime, my bike is ready, after 18 or so hours of bench time.
A coincidental failure of the OEM starter bendix, and the new non-OEM starter also having a sticking bendix (and its apparent incompatibility with my bike) led to some wrong assumptions and dead-end wrong-tree troubleshooting.
The bike has had the most thorough going-over, having multiple connector blocks stripped and cleaned, my FuzeBlock disconnected and reconnected properly, wiring for auxiliary stuff removed and replaced properly, a new battery, valve clearances checked (only one needed adjustment), HES, TPS, ECU, injectors, etc. all checked and confirmed good... dealer says it's running sweet again and is a fine example of a great bike...
I'll learn today Friday what the bill will be...
Thanks to everyone for the offers of assist, and loans of bikes, and suggestions for troubleshooting. Remarkable forum, and you guys are all genuine gents.
Pints on me at the next event *...
* Once my wallet recovers from the bill...
Interesting
You usually get a warning, with a failing starter, funny noises & dragging the battery down to 7-8v and making starting incompatible
I had a new oem Valeo starter fitted when mine went original 15 year old starter went bad a few months ago
I deliberated long & hard with starters ranging from £30 to £100 & in the end went for a new Valeo at nearly £200
I shall strip and try to refurb the original Valeo over winter to make good again and keep as a spare
I think I just heard a collective cheer from across the country...!
Fantastic news, that's brilliant.
Fantastic news, that's brilliant.
Delighted to hear the Yellow Peril lives!
Yay!
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