Africa Twin Off-Road Sat Nav

Warlord · Sep 6, 2019

er-minio said:
The 276 has always been the big daddy of sat navs.
Nice object.
Bit of an overkill for most of us mere mortals.

Couple of notes, questions:

I think a normal zumo will survive dunking too.

Same for any other satnav.

That screen is a beauty. Always wondered how complex/long is it to input keyboard data with the buttons?

Question: can a normal zumo have multiple maps too? I was under the impression that it could.
I have a few DEM maps on Basecamp, never tried to transfer them on the device.

That is great.
BTW, my Garmin Edge 25 has GLONASS too

Question, how fast is it?
A few friends have the older model (quite a few years old now), and it was very slow at recalculating routes when missing waypoints, etc. I mean very slow. Not sure what the problem was there (hardware or misconfiguration).

It's absolutely slow. If you scroll he cursor off screen it grinds to a stop, enough to put it down and wait 30 seconds for the screen to refresh.

It doesn't do full UK Postcode searching. So you can enter the first 4 digits and it'll then want a road name, so if you don't have a road name it won't let you proceed. So that's crap.

The maps are slow at rendering speeds above 80 mph, so the faster you go, the harder it tries to keep up.... and failing mostly.

The buttons are a nightmare, with deep flowchart type menu structures to get to anything, and the keyboard entry is one button click on a QWERTY keyboard. It's very slow as each letter input creates a complete search of the database before it'll allow a second input letter, then repeat the delay.

So for road navigation is absolutely crap. I would not buy this unit for that. You need a University Degree is Mapping just to get the thing installed as well. Took me two days to figure it all out, as no instructions.

Warlord · Sep 6, 2019

BUT..... where it REALLY SHINES......

- It's a new farkle and qualifies for 100 bikermate points. :hippy

- It's a dedicated hardware platform independent to your smartphone. This is the biggest benefit. So your phone can stay safely tucked away somewhere else. I don't fancy smashing that, or having it fall off the bike thanks, or covered in cowshit, horseshit, sheepshit, piss and mud as everything else is when riding off-road in the UK. It's designed to be waterproof, heatproof, shockproof, cold temperature use resistant.

- The screen is big and it works in direct sunlight as it's so bright. This is a benefit for easy and clear viewing, my Samsung S10+ is one of the latest, brightest and largest screens for a smartphone, and although it's a 6.4 inch screen, it's widescreen, whereas this GPSmap is 5 inch screen but better viewing area. I don't want to buy another smartphone to use on the bike just for mapping.

- Once my legal BOATS are mapped into the system as waypoints, and my home, that's all I need. Everything else can be mapped on Basecamp and uploaded onto the device for my off-road tours. That's all I need it for. It does have basic road navigation which is 'good enough' to get somewhere and back home again.

- My off-road speed is no more than 50mph usually, as my off-road tyres can't exceed 100 mph anyway. So this unit is more than capable of keeping up with my speed of riding. But that remains to be seen as still need to test it out in the wilds.

- Buttons and toggle switches. Smartphone touchscreens are a nightmare in the rain, bright sunshine, cold, mud, or with gloves on. Good luck with that !! This device has physical buttons, so although it's slow, it's reliable and you know when you've pressed something. That is a benefit to me as well, if nothing else, just to keep my gloves on !!

Warlord · Sep 6, 2019

If I was doing a road tour only, and not off-roading, I'd take the BMW R1200GS Adventure with Nav VI absolutely.

But for hacking across the Welsh Wonderland on my Africa Twin, this Garmin 276cx device connected to my Inreach Explorer Plus will do very nicely thanks

Then when I can get back home from Welsh Wonderland without crashing and nearly killing myself, I'll start looking to travel further afield like... Manchester, or Hull :bounce1

Fookin possibilities are endless !!

er-minio · Sep 6, 2019

The screen on the 276 is magnificent.

Btw, apart from the buttons... you can install other maps on Zumos, or your Nav VI, as well (just tried out of curiosity).
I've done a fair bit of offroading now, using my 396 to navigate. I generally create (or download) a track, not a route, for the offroad parts, and keep that visible on the screen. Then you just follow it. Easy.

This is part of the track I did on the Pyrenees (a section from www.transeurotrail.org) superimposed on Spain's OpenStreet DEM map on the Zumo directly (I used that map on BC only before).

Warlord · Sep 6, 2019

er-minio said:
The screen on the 276 is magnificent.

Btw, apart from the buttons... you can install other maps on Zumos, or your Nav VI, as well (just tried out of curiosity).
I've done a fair bit of offroading now, using my 396 to navigate. I generally create (or download) a track, not a route, for the offroad parts, and keep that visible on the screen. Then you just follow it. Easy.

This is part of the track I did on the Pyrenees (a section from www.transeurotrail.org) superimposed on Spain's OpenStreet DEM map on the Zumo directly (I used that map on BC only before).

That's interesting... Hmmmm, I'll have a look at that.

Would be really nice to have the TalkyToaster maps on my Nav VI as an option.

Cheers :thumb2

Warlord · Sep 6, 2019

er-minio said:
Btw, apart from the buttons... you can install other maps on Zumos, or your Nav VI, as well (just tried out of curiosity).

Yes, confirmed.

I've just installed the TalkyToaster 1:50k map on my Nav VI. So now I can flick between the two maps.

Great stuff, I like it :thumb2

Warlord · Sep 8, 2019

Here's a comparison of the Garmin 276cx Screen in direct sunlight compared to a Zumo 660 and BMW Nav VI

Watch the video, it gives a real indicator what Direct Sunlight effect has on these devices :blast

Santa-2512 · Sep 8, 2019

Nice job of the hard sell, but your trying to compare totally different systems

The Zumo, Tom Tom, etc are sat navs, designed for the average mr & mrs consumer,

Who's knowlege of mapping, way points & co-ordinates is limited to street names & post codes.

Your selling a GPS system, which is miles away from, "at the next roundabout turn left" lol.

I have a magellen hand held GS which has mapping so detailed,

you have to download your routes in chunks, so it can stich together your complete route from the DVD full of the other maps.

It works indoors, and has a colour screen that lasts for days running off 2 1.5v batteries.

waterproof etc etc etc.

However as detailed as it is, its not a sat nav. its a GPS unit designed for getting you from waypoint / coordinate to waypoint / coordinate.

no fancy voices, little car icons or other commercial junk, designed to appeal to the masses

Hence the multiple mapping options, the amount of sattelite systems available etc etc

One thing i do agree on is the screen size and brightness, now that is nice :thumb2

Warlord · Sep 8, 2019

See, just what I was about to say

Owen Snell · Sep 9, 2019

Warlord said:
Here's a comparison of the Garmin 276cx Screen in direct sunlight compared to a Zumo 660 and BMW Nav VI

Watch the video, it gives a real indicator what Direct Sunlight effect has on these devices

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mI8BVsb8ybg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Garmin 276cx screen is a beast, always visible even when the sun is DIRECTLY on it

It is a nice screen, which is the drawback of using a phone - reflective screen and poor battery life if on full brightness. What I like about Viewranger on the phone is that it is simply an on screen OS map with your location displayed and the possibility to track routes. Being online, the map is always up to date, important for byways, which is why I'd rather use that than a paper map. I don't need navigation, just a map. Does this nav display OS maps, or are you uploading byways onto it as routes through what would otherwise just be green space on the screen?

Warlord · Sep 9, 2019

Owen Snell said:
It is a nice screen, which is the drawback of using a phone - reflective screen and poor battery life if on full brightness. What I like about Viewranger on the phone is that it is simply an on screen OS map with your location displayed and the possibility to track routes. Being online, the map is always up to date, important for byways, which is why I'd rather use that than a paper map. I don't need navigation, just a map. Does this nav display OS maps, or are you uploading byways onto it as routes through what would otherwise just be green space on the screen?

Yep, as previously posted in this thread.

You can have a map for City Navigation (which is a one time pay to download) and will be up to date at purchase... then it'll just go out of date as time moves on.

You can have a map for Ordinance Survey (which is a one time pay to download) and will be up to date at purchase... then it'll just go out of date as time moves on. This comes in two Scales (1:50k and 1:25k) from Garmin.. It's called the Topo Pro maps. It's basically a scanned copy of the latest OS Maps. They call it a Raster Type Map (scanned image) So the detail stays the same, but when you zoom in it starts to blur (like getting too close to a paper map). This is now routable via Sat Nav and includes Byways and Walkways etc

You can have a map which has most of the Ordinance Survey details and is subscription based from Talkytoaster website. This is updated regularly and you can download the updates when they are released as part of your yearly subscription fee (£50 for two years and other options available). This is a dynamic Vector Map and adds more detail as you zoom in. The clarity stays the same.

On the 276cx device you can have all three of these maps, and flick between them on the fly.

Warlord · Sep 9, 2019

Example of Garmin Topo Pro Maps at 1:50k Scale

You can see the BOATS (Byway Open to All Traffic) line on it in red with crossed sections every other dot.

Warlord · Sep 9, 2019

Example of TalkyToaster Vector Maps at 1:50k Scale

You can see the BOATS (Byway Open to All Traffic) line on it in red with crossed sections every other dot. Same as Garmin Topo Pro map

Warlord · Sep 9, 2019

They're very clear, very detailed and give you a good overview of what is around you.

The Garmin and TalkyToaster maps will route you down bridleways and BOATS. This is why I also downloaded the Garmin City Navigator as it only deals with Roads. So it's better for getting home or place to place via the road network.

On the other maps, I can plan tracks in Basecamp which can be just BOATS, or include roads.

I can also just add waypoints to the start of chosen BOAT, and let my City Navigator get me to the start point. This can be useful if you want to jump between place to place dynamically. I've had to do this before now because of Closed Roads blocking our route.

BOATS can be found on https://www.bywaymap.com/ for locations around you. These are legal lanes, but change status, so best check for signage before bombing down there on your quarter ton Adventure....

Warlord · Sep 9, 2019

I've also since taken off the Screen Protector that I bought.

When I did the Direct Sunlight Test, the Screen Protector reflected a small amount of sunlight which wasn't there once removed.

So it'll stay removed, as it was marginally clearer without it.

Owen Snell · Sep 9, 2019

Warlord said:
Yep, as previously posted in this thread.........

Why bother reading it all when I can ask you?

Owen Snell · Sep 9, 2019

Warlord said:
...
..

BOATS can be found on https://www.bywaymap.com/ for locations around you. These are legal lanes, but change status, so best check for signage before bombing down there on your quarter ton Adventure....

I found bywaymap to have some inaccuracies / out of date stuff on there. Lincolnshire is awkward, because there are byways that show on the county definitive map (LCC web site) that are no longer byways and are posted as bridleways when you get there. Up to date OS maps are correct. Lincolnshire often don't use the normal byway marking either, when byways are unclassified or unsurfaced county roads. They have green dots on white roads for these, and only signposted on some of them. Nottinghamshire (next door) is much better with not closing byways and signposting them properly.

No quarter ton adventure off road action here. Currently 156 kg fully fuelled TE630 for lanes. Soon to be joined by a 115 kg (ish, I'll weigh it full of fuel after I pick it up) TE250. I can't be dropping an ATAS on my leg at my age!

Timolgra · Feb 29, 2020

So then in a nutshell, from someone who has extensively used both the old 478/276 and Garmin Montana for real offroading.

The 676cx has a fantastic screen and buttons BUT its very expensive and unfit for purpose because the processor is a slug, the screen refresh for OS mapping makes it virtually unusable, it will often give your next road turning once you've already ridden past it.

I have the opportunity to buy brand new from Garmin at half price but to be honest this unit appears a huge disappointment particularly to those who now what a great gps unit is ie. 276c and even better 478 so as an offroad gps the Montana beats it hands down

Warlord · Feb 29, 2020

Timolgra said:
So then in a nutshell, from someone who has extensively used both the old 478/276 and Garmin Montana for real offroading.

The 676cx has a fantastic screen and buttons BUT its very expensive and unfit for purpose because the processor is a slug, the screen refresh for OS mapping makes it virtually unusable, it will often give your next road turning once you've already ridden past it.

I have the opportunity to buy brand new from Garmin at half price but to be honest this unit appears a huge disappointment particularly to those who now what a great gps unit is ie. 276c and even better 478 so as an offroad gps the Montana beats it hands down

Have you used the 276cx with the TalkyToaster Maps?

Timolgra · Feb 29, 2020

Warlord said:
It's absolutely slow. If you scroll he cursor off screen it grinds to a stop, enough to put it down and wait 30 seconds for the screen to refresh.

It doesn't do full UK Postcode searching. So you can enter the first 4 digits and it'll then want a road name, so if you don't have a road name it won't let you proceed. So that's crap.

The maps are slow at rendering speeds above 80 mph, so the faster you go, the harder it tries to keep up.... and failing mostly.

The buttons are a nightmare, with deep flowchart type menu structures to get to anything, and the keyboard entry is one button click on a QWERTY keyboard. It's very slow as each letter input creates a complete search of the database before it'll allow a second input letter, then repeat the delay.

So for road navigation is absolutely crap. I would not buy this unit for that. You need a University Degree is Mapping just to get the thing installed as well. Took me two days to figure it all out, as no instructions.

The buttons are fine when used to them and in real life not a problem.
Russian satellites as a bonus, really? you're not likely to lose reception under the trees.
And it seems for off road you're now using TalkyToaster Vector maps when in reality the OS mapping is what you really want to use but this unit can't cope with them.

Oh it has a big screen though

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