Another rear wheel collapse..
- Thread starter Oldrat
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Well if anyone wants to swap their spokes for a mint set of alloys with scorpion trail 2 on let me know.
German Behr spoked wheels on 1100/1150/early aircooled 1200's seem to be much stronger
Discuss
......
WC wheels aren't made by Behr
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It's true to say that as it only takes I think 5nm to torque up the spoke and that 1/4 turn can be sufficient to go from virtually nothing to acceptable there is very little room for error as the x lace is a very strong design.
As such the grub screw is probably necessary to act as a lock nut.
Long ago as in since the 90s there wasn't a problem...It appeared a couple of years ago....and you don't think it's due to material changes and where the wheels are built....
Hmmmm, a dubious conclusion me thinks but each to their own.
Neither were the hexheads were they? I don't recall this issue coming up with them either.
I’m led to believe by my dealer, BM changed wheel suppliers around 2015/2016 and it is those wheels what have the issue, I think they have returned to their original suppliers but don’t know when that occurred.
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No...hence the question mark...
Follow the link, you will see a nice BMW GSA on the home page
http://en.giant-alloy.com/
Here's your nice BMW GSA WC
http://en.giant-alloy.com/index/industry/7.html
The reason I don’t think it’s process is that the supplier builds millions of wheels annually for many marques and models. Were it a process issue as in not tensioning the spokes correctly then that would have been sorted long ago u would think.
It could be material as I think it’s more likely the spokes are stretching or regressing into the rim etc. I’m not sure whether the builder supplies the materials or why if it is a material issue that has not been rectified. Is the single sided swinger a factor as power levels have risen ?
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Loose spokes were not a problem on the early water cooled bikes.
The x lace wheel is unique to bmw as far as I know.
If the 'new' spokes have a lower yeild strength (the point at which a material permanently deforms) then I would suggest it will likely stretch more under an equivalent tension than the 'old' spokes, ergo you might have to use a higher torque setting so that the spokes clockwise from 90 through to 270 remain in tension under all loading conditions. If they go into compression due to spokes clockwise from 270 to 90 'over stretching' this could allow them to loosen as you would lose the friction fit.
So it could be both a material and build issue....
You also have to consider what the supply contracts have in them and costs for changes or cancellation and quality... It might be commercially preferable to keep supplying dodgy wheels and sort under warranty as that's cheaper for BMW than cancellation.
The x lace wheel is unique to bmw as far as I know.
If the 'new' spokes have a lower yeild strength (the point at which a material permanently deforms) then I would suggest it will likely stretch more under an equivalent tension than the 'old' spokes, ergo you might have to use a higher torque setting so that the spokes clockwise from 90 through to 270 remain in tension under all loading conditions. If they go into compression due to spokes clockwise from 270 to 90 'over stretching' this could allow them to loosen as you would lose the friction fit.
So it could be both a material and build issue....
You also have to consider what the supply contracts have in them and costs for changes or cancellation and quality... It might be commercially preferable to keep supplying dodgy wheels and sort under warranty as that's cheaper for BMW than cancellation.
Until someone gets killed or maimed. If that’s BMW’s business model, then it shows a total lack of morals and ethics.
Bmw have history on this, I believe the Mini electric power steering failures without warning. Until a well known actor used got involved after his daughter had an accident
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They're building motorcycles. They don't give a shit if you get killed or maimed, that's your tough shit.
I think it is an industry trait. Aprilia has collapsing suspension parts in the early 2000’s involving at least 1 death and a lawsuit in NZ which was settled out of court along with a gagging order. The part was never updated or a recall issued.
Look at Vauxhall with the self igniting zafira. The government almost had to force that recall.
My understanding was the failures were due to brake calipers becoming loose and hitting the spokes.
I will be checking both the calipers are secured and the spokes make a nice tingy sound.
I will be checking both the calipers are secured and the spokes make a nice tingy sound.
A shopping centre car park, some of the shops and something over a hundred (I think closer to 200) cars went up in flames here, in Cork, a month or two ago, down to this recall not having been done on a Zafira.
Insurance payout estimate €116m.
Sorry, I digress. Back to BMW and the wheel issue.
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That's still a possibility....but I would say most likely in limited numbers. The scale of the problem suggests something more. Also folks are having wheels replaced on new bikes due to spoke tension.
The scale of the issue cannot determine the cause or even intimate the likely cause. Whilst you may well be correct that the cause maybe something completely different or more likely a range of causes the numbers.
I think that there is sufficient doubt it’s a single cause, if it was or a simple material or build quality issue, BMW would have recalled bikes as they did with the front suspension failure.
So the UKGSER investigative team should consider what the full range of likely causes
Faulty spokes
Faulty spoke nuts
Faulty hubs
Faulty rims
Poor assembly
Poor inspection
Other component failure
Foreign object passing through wheel
Etc etc
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