This year's European trip

gazuk · Jan 14, 2020

Sat nav - I do rely on the garmin a little more than I should. Just put in destination, make sure it's in bike mode and just go. It does sometimes send you very narrow and twisty rows so I will be checking the routes via pape maps in future.

As for last night , went well. We're going on Friday on a 4pm train. Once in calais we'll have a couple of hours ride to Laon or Reims for the night, then sat ride to Neiderbronn in North vogues stayed there last year and is a good stop before Germany) then Sunday onto baden baden and pick up b500 down to Switzerland. Doing 4 nights in Switzerland. Not sure about ride back, but we have 2.5 days to get back to Calais for 5pm train, probably skirt southern France.

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gazuk · Jan 14, 2020

Haven't checked finer details with kurviger yet but that's the basic plan, but we are still flexible so it may change a little.

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Wapping · Jan 14, 2020

gazuk said:
Sat nav - I do rely on the garmin a little more than I should....so I will be checking the routes via pape maps in future.

As for last night , went well. We're going on Friday on a 4pm train....Not sure about ride back, but we have 2.5 days to get back to Calais for 5pm train, probably skirt southern France.

Looks like you are all set. Enjoy!

grant123 · Jan 14, 2020

Andermatt is a good location and easily doable in 2 days without motorways.

I'm going in June and following a similar route to the last time i went.
Heading down the french/Belgium border towards our first nights stay near the Vosges.
Day two is heading towards Andermatt taking in some truly amazing roads on the route.

i can send across routes if you tell me in what format you want.

sven · Jan 14, 2020

It's easily doable in seven days. I normally allow two nights going down and two coming back from Zeebrugge or Rotterdam, but have done it with a one night stop before now with only a few hours on the motorway to get out of the flatlands of Holland and northern Germany. Three nights in Brienz in 2015 allowed a full day riding the famous passes around Andermatt (Furka, Grimsel, Sustan, Nufenstrasse, Tremola) and another day heading up the Jungfraujoch on the train.

Wapping · Jan 14, 2020

grant123 said:
Andermatt is a good location and easily doable in 2 days without motorway....

i can send across routes if you tell me in what format you want.

If you send them to me, I’ll put them onto Dropbox for everyone to share. PM for my email address, please.

grant123 · Jan 14, 2020

Day 1 and 2 available here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1SiK81gig3LAZJU6wkdQirHh5RexDefNW?usp=sharing

Wapping · Jan 14, 2020

grant123 said:
Day 1 and 2 available here...

Thank you.

The route / track opens pretty neatly in the Scenic app on a iPad.

It does though show the possible danger of letting a third party piece of software (in this case Scenic) convert a gpx route, as it may well do it according to its preferences.

Here you can see an example. The gpx track is the dotted blue line. The pink or magenta line, is Scenic’s version of it. Scenic has a default setting of ‘curvy’ so it will take every opportunity to take the rider down roads that its algorithms tell it are ‘curvy’, just for the sake of it. If the rider didn’t check what Scenic offered up, then he’d probably end each day cursing his Garmin (which did nothing wrong at all) or his phone and its Scenic app. In short, check and check again.

You can get pretty much the same ‘Let’s go curvy for the sake of it’ phenomenon if you blindly accept and follow a route created in Scenic’s sister app, Kurviger. If in doubt check, which is best done in BaseCamp or Mapsource.

Deleted account 210609001 · Jan 14, 2020

Wapping said:
Another free tip. Lots of people cross back to the UK on the Saturday / Sunday afternoon and evening trains. If you can time your return so that you stay just short of Calais the night before, you can skip up to the train the following morning with much less traffic. Arriving home the next morning, is not much different to arriving the evening / night before.... but often less faffing about in queues.

The guardians of the borders try to share the pain equally, and make people in the morning wait just as long even when it isn't busy. Also, on a quiet morning the customs (as opposed to immigration) officers might have more time available to give you a good once-over. Ditto the French border authorities. On the bright side, at least their one-pair-a-day purple gloves will be relatively clean in the morning.

wessie · Jan 14, 2020

gazuk said:
Sat nav - I do rely on the garmin a little more than I should. Just put in destination, make sure it's in bike mode and just go. It does sometimes send you very narrow and twisty rows so I will be checking the routes via pape maps in future.

As for last night , went well. We're going on Friday on a 4pm train. Once in calais we'll have a couple of hours ride to Laon or Reims for the night, then sat ride to Neiderbronn in North vogues stayed there last year and is a good stop before Germany) then Sunday onto baden baden and pick up b500 down to Switzerland. Doing 4 nights in Switzerland. Not sure about ride back, but we have 2.5 days to get back to Calais for 5pm train, probably skirt southern France.

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have a look at https://goo.gl/maps/E8o8WV28eAy5BtBi9 - this is my preferred route to the North Vosges from Coquelles - you can do toll free dual carriageway most of the way, buy cheap fuel in Lux and tick off 4 countries.

2 hours from the tunnel puts you at Mons which has a cluster of hotels by the train station, including the ubiquitous Ibis. Several nearby eateries, an impressive cathedral to gawp at on a post prandial walk and of course, Belgian beer which is much better than you get in France.

We are doing something similar this year but having an overnight in Dinant (3 hours from the tunnel) then on to Obernai in the Vosges for a few days.

Deleted account 210609001 · Jan 14, 2020

If you or your friends are set on Andermatt, I'd suggest at least two nights there. And on the day in between, you can leave your luggage in the hotel and enjoy a circular route from there. Susten, Grimsel Furka and Oberlp passes (though the Oberalp means coming back the same way. There's also a good route over the Nufenen pass and back via St Gotthard (I think). St Gotthrd gves you three choices - the tunnel (boring) the new road (fast but relatively busy) and the old road (INCREDIBLY twisty).

The only risk is that the weather might not play ball. I did something very similar a few years ago and had a stunning ride over Susten and Grimsel, so good we decided to go home that way the next day. It was freezing cold and so foggy I could barely see my visor. So good to have a plan B in case meteorology fails you.

We didn't buy a vignette for motorways and the slog up to Andermatt from Sion and Brig was a pain in the arse on a very busy, very slow road. For much of the time you are teased with the sight of the freely running motorway to your left. The scenery looks just as good from the motorway! And it's not like you will be taking lots of leisurely stops for coffee, because you can't afford it! I also got very frustrated and lost in Geneva through paranoia about getting on a motorway and having to pay a fine of 32 gazillion Swiss francs. If I was doing it again today, I'd buy the vignette!

We took a route down there via the Vosges and Pontarlier, and into Switzerland over the Col de ..... can't remember! Goes to Gex. Remembered - Col de la Faucille or something like that.

If this all sounds a bit negative, it's not meant to be. Switzerland is stunning and the passes were amazing. Just don't bank on doing much other than riding in Switzerland unless you have lots of money. Live cheaply in Switz, have some good meals and drinks in France and/or Germany.

Maybe come back via The Rhine Falls and then Black Forest?

Wapping · Jan 14, 2020

wessie said:
have a look at https://goo.gl/maps/E8o8WV28eAy5BtBi9 - this is my preferred route to the North Vosges from Coquelles - you can do toll free dual carriageway most of the way, buy cheap fuel in Lux and tick off 4 countries.

2 hours from the tunnel puts you at Mons......

Wessie, I am not sure your link works, at least not on an iPad.

The route comes out simply as A6 followed by A4 motorways and nowhere particularly near Mons.

wessie · Jan 14, 2020

Wapping said:
Wessie, I am not sure your link works, at least not on an iPad.

The route comes out simply as A6 followed by A4 motorways.

weird, your image does not appear in chrome but the link is there in the text

your ipad has ignored the embedded shaping point and created a new route - I had those options ot begin with then dragged the route via the Lille ring road

I have added some waypoints for the i-disabled https://goo.gl/maps/us7KMuwDBoWHDcSU9

Wapping · Jan 14, 2020

Quinten said:
If you or your friends are set on Andermatt, I'd suggest at least two nights there. And on the day in between, you can leave your luggage in the hotel and enjoy a circular route from there. Susten, Grimsel Furka and Oberlp passes (though the Oberalp means coming back the same way. There's also a good route over the Nufenen pass and back via St Gotthard (I think).....
Maybe come back via The Rhine Falls and then Black Forest?

Good advice.

Rasher · Jan 17, 2020

My tuppence worth...

Andermatt is a doddle, I am 2 hours from the Tunnel and can be in Andermatt by lunch time on day 2 if I set off around 6:00am and don't piss around, but this means lots of Motorway, but the reality is to avoid motorways you will just lose a day each way riding (relatively) dull French back roads, time that could be better spent riding the Swiss Alps.

Personally I would head past Reims on the Motorway, if you want a nice place to stop Troyes is stunning, well worth a night there, and only about 4 hours from Calais, if not press on a bit to Châlons-en-Champagne, then either head towards St Dizier (this might be about as far as you want to go in one day, but I would peel of cross country here and go through Bar de Luc and on towards Neufchâteau, this means the last couple of hours of the day would be on nicer cross country roads (but is about 5 hours ride from Calais, plus stops)

From here you can head to Andermatt in a day quite easily, but will need to do a bit of main road / motorway to clear the very built up strip between Luasanne and Basel.

An alternative is to head towards the Black Forest on day one (pretty much all Motorway) but day 2 is down via Black Forest. I tend to do out one way and back another.

3 Days each way opens up a lot more nice stuff - but I still would spend most of day 1 on Motorways. Normally I go out in 3 days and come back in 2.

leedude03 · Jan 17, 2020

the link posted by wessie opens ok on pc using most browsers

Wapping · Jan 17, 2020

Thanks Lee, I guessed it might. It’s odd that a modern quite powerful large iPad and Safari opens it up differently.

gazuk · Jan 17, 2020

Thanks Rasher.

Funnily enough we've indentified Troys as a stop of on the way back, leaving just a 4 hour ride the next day to calais.

We don't want to do too much on the way out when we get to calais as we're no getting till about 6pm French time. I think we've penciled in a place at Reims which we reckon is 3 hours. Don't really want to be riding much later.

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Wapping · Jan 17, 2020

Rasher’s advice is, as usual, spot on.

It’s always possible to differ in opinion over the relative merits of roads and directions taken but, after a while, it simply boils down to:

1. Where do you want to get to?

2. Why do you need to get there and when?

3. What time do you have available to get there, from wherever it is you are starting from?

4. How obstinate (or otherwise) you are and / or feel on the day..... and maybe if it’s raining

Rasher · Jan 19, 2020

Reims is a good stop, I sometimes use it ont he way back to give an easy ride home the next day, preferring to stay here;

LOGIS HÔTEL AU TAMBOUR

Having a pool can be nice if I have had a long day in scorching weather, they have a garage for the bikes and the town centre is a leisurely 10 minute stroll, plenty of places to eat / drink.

Stayed in Troyes (Pronounced as the French say the number three) many times, always use this Hotel as it has secure parking and is in the old historic town

https://hotel-troyes.brithotel.fr/

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