Brembos now fitted to new models ?
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Njw1967
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My point being BMW will continue to cheapen the product and maximising profit untill their loyal customer base has had enough and vote with their feet
It happened to Mercedes when the bean counters cheapened and cheapened then people stopped buying so they had to un cheapen
This has all been covered sooo many times. Hayes supplied Harley for many years with callipers and you can bet if they were crap or had any safety issues, they would have been sued by now. I have Hayes callipers on one of my Harleys and they worked fine as do the ones on my 1250.
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Simple - Brembo monoblocs do not have a history of leaking, the jury is still out on the non monobloc Hayes.
So do you have inside knowledge that the change was just about saving money, or could there have been other reasons? The callipers were obviously built to a standard and passed the design approval phase, so its more likely to be production issues rather than design. Just because something is changed it doesn't necessarily mean its cheaper.
The new brakes are better than the Brembro , they do not fade . Better bite , okay they make the disks rusty for some reason as does the brembro on the rear, could be the disc material as the rear is well pitted and the front the same . Just swapped over to the spoke wheels so will see how I get on.
Oh , mine also do not leak , other riders I ride with also prefere the new Hayes .
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Like i said " I suspect"
I sort of agree but for some the options of change to a different brand is not there as the Gs is so good at what it does , each day every day .
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I would agree with that but come on everyone kinows that the build quality on modern Gs is no where near what it once was
Christ I sound like JB
Maybe the PCP / change bikes every 2 or 3 years has been well analysed by BMW 9 I would be very surprised if they have not looked at buying trends etc) to the point where they are very happy with build quality knowing a few warranty issues aside the first owners will be happy for the short time they own the bike
If you watch 44teeth discuss the 2019 S1000rr with BMWs head technician, he explains exactly why they were changed. It wasn’t cost at least as far as he was concerned.
A bmw dealer tech explained the leaks to me as not of one cause. Some had pinched o rings but the vast majority it’s down to slight roughing of the bores meaning the piston allows leakage past the seals. In the latter cases 85% stop leaking after a bit of use as the bore smooths out. The particular dealer inspects the piston for signs of wetting during the pdi and if present works the pistons until it stops and none have bounced on them and leaked more. His opinion was that too many dealers panic change a Caliper that has a simple fix.
I doubt very much that BMW and Hayes are simply sitting back thinking they don’t give a toss. It will feed into the production process. Probably most of the replacement callipers dealers are fitting are coming from the a large warehouse in Europe that is full of callipers with the same issue. Hence the repeat failures.
As a side note I had a brand new Aprilia rsv in 2004 and within days of getting it I would get air in the clutch especially when the bike was hot resulting in drag and lurching 3 feet forward when put in gear etc. Almost every bike was affected. I had 4 new m/c over 2 years, 3 of which were design revisions to try and fix the problem. That was a Brembo unit using a thin walled plastic piston ( to save money or weight I guess) that flexed when hot and allowed air past the seal. Based on Brembo’s speed of fix, Hayes have another year to match them
My point being that all manufacturers cheapen products (take cost out) to maximise profits - BMW are not alone. KTM have had quite a few recalls over the past 5 years or so. Here's another Brembo failure and subsequent recall of KTM models.
https://www.ktm.com/globalassets/sa...dels-from-my-2015---valid-for-all-markets.pdf
I just don't get why some people think that BMW are alone at looking at ways to take cost out.
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Yep
KTM are falling into the same trap the build quality is not what it once was and I agree that nearly all makers look at ways of increasing profit by cutting production costs
The antithesis to this is Ducati who seem to have upped their quality from years gone by but then i suppose compared to the 90s product that wasn't too hard
I am on my second Ducati and on both the build quality and components are very very good even the tool kit is a quality bit of kit compared to the screwdriver from BMW
That sounds like poor manufacturing tolerances ... which of course makes the caliper cheaper to make. I don’t mind “running in” an engine, but not the brakes! Completely unacceptable.
Yep
KTM are falling into the same trap the build quality is not what it once was and I agree that nearly all makers look at ways of increasing profit by cutting production costs
The antithesis to this is Ducati who seem to have upped their quality from years gone by but then i suppose compared to the 90s product that wasn't too hard
I am on my second Ducati and on both the build quality and components are very very good even the tool kit is a quality bit of kit compared to the screwdriver from BMW
I have to agree with this.
I have a 2006 Duc 749 and a 2014 GSA. Both similar mileage, and ridden in similar conditions, but the Duc still looks mint, whereas the GSAs frame is rusty and when I wash both at the same time the discs on the BMW get surface rust really quickly, but the 749’s doesn’t.
Still love both of them all the same
Yep
KTM are falling into the same trap the build quality is not what it once was and I agree that nearly all makers look at ways of increasing profit by cutting production costs
The antithesis to this is Ducati who seem to have upped their quality from years gone by but then i suppose compared to the 90s product that wasn't too hard
I am on my second Ducati and on both the build quality and components are very very good even the tool kit is a quality bit of kit compared to the screwdriver from BMW
So why do I hear the residual value of Ducati’s are rubbish?
No ones asking you to run in the brakes, it’s a workaround found by the dealer until such time as Hayes/Bmw have sorted the issue carried out pre delivery. Whilst not ideal, the dealers can take simple steps to minimise the likelihood of leaks.
I doubt very much that Hayes or bmw are rubbing their hands at the vast money made by manufacturing in a leak potential. It will get fixed as economically it’s in everyone’s interest to do so. As many have said, no one including Brembo are shining examples of getting it 100% right first time.
Because no one likes high mileage Ducati’s if you had it a while and ridden it. I sold mine (traded it actually) 2 years ago with 24k on it. It was spotless with nice extras, but most Ducati dealers wouldn’t take it with that mileage unless I gave it to them. Privately not a sniff.
Made worse by models based on the testastretta engine which had a fair share of main bearing failures ( plastic shelled type) which didn’t get sorted quick enough so people were very wary of high miles on Ducati’s historically. Add to that high service costs for belts etc. A big service with belts would be about £700 +
Thanks, a sensible explanation.
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Residuals are poor on BMW as well and Ducati probably no worse in reality. I lost less money on my Hypermotard in 2 years than i did on the XR in 2 years
Hve you seen the residuals of top marque cars like S class merc or Range rover ?
In real terms a few quid here or there makes fuck all difference but for a bit of balance ive just had a very quick look on Autotrader at 2nd hand 1250 GS rallye and 1260 Multistrada S which are similar price new
They seem to be selling or advertised at around the £12K mark for both so it seems a moot point
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