part way along a saved route, stop the route then restart it. A problem....

Hi Richard thanks for the big input there

That should be a good comparison of what i have found
2 things spring to mind
1 you have a lot of shaping points in a small area so you are never very far from one...I think the XT would behave ok under the same circumstances
But when you plot a route over lets say 150 miles the shaping points are miles apart then the results could be very different ( this could be why when you convert a track to a route you end up with loads of points for the unit to jump into on thre route )..Then the XT seems to behave fine

2 the other thing is the firmware on the XT need sorting and this is very possible... Garmin seem release new unit that have loads of glitches

It's a pity you can't try a XT on the same test to see what it does
The only thing i do know is at the moment unless i create a route with loads of shaping points the XT struggles to pick a route up again once you have stopped it

There is no way the XT will run a route you have created if you tell it to go to the end of the route as a destination ( no matter where you are along it )...It will calculate the route to the end using it's own route setting. Unless there is no other way there !!

Thanks for you help Rich...Takes time to do this i know

Here is another interesting one for you
Went for a play with a 25 mile U-shaped route waypoint at the start and waypoint at the end shaping pointis the rest

At a point along the route i stopped it and restarted it when i was sat on the route
The XT just recalculated a route straght to the end point
Moved 500 yards down the road did exactly the same thing and it routed along the planned route
I.E you seem to get differnt results depending on where you are on a route ( it is possible my unit is faulty but i don't think it is ) I still think it's a firmware glitch

Thanks for the reply, Garry.

That’s an interesting thought about the number of shaping points dictating things. I know that my Nav V and VI will both behave properly, running very long (200 mile or more) cross country routes with very few shaping points. They will also run and manage routes without shaping points at all, over the same distance too. For example, I am confident that if I asked BaseCamp (or one of the devices) to give me an A to B route (so only a start and end point, with no shaping at all between the two) avoiding motorways across France for 300 miles, both devices would run the route perfectly. It’s not how I create routes but I’m confident just the same. A route with no (or very few) shaping points, still has invisible breadcrumbs along its length to help the device ‘hold’ the route in place. I will though accept that a track, by its very nature, probably holds many more. But how many of a track’s multiple more breadcrumbs come over to a route through conversion I have no idea. What I do know is that converting a track into a route is sometimes not perfect. I have taken in tracks from third parties that produce horrendous routes in BaseCamp, even using a home computer’s powerful modern processors. The chief reason is that sometimes the track’s creator rode tiny little roads or simply nipped onto a small ferry (or did two metres down a one way street the wrong way) that the Garmin’s map either does not know are there at all and / or will not knowingly route you the wrong way down a one way street, even for one centimetre. The powerful BaseCamp software does its best to join up all the points it can along the track into a single route; the result is a horrendous route full of spikes and gaps, that needs lots of manual corrections, sometimes helped by a switch into Open Street Maps, with its sometimes greater base detail. In a way it’s no different to looking at two paper maps of the same area, one with more detail printed on it than the other. On one, entire roads, villages or towns might be absent (useless if you have been told to go there) but plainly visible on the other map and perfect to work out a route on.

It’s interesting that the XT sometimes does not know that it’s standing on the magenta line of a route on restarting (or sometimes on starting) a route. That can sometimes happen with my Nav V and VI, too. I can see it when:

A. The route offered up has a very different shape or the estimated time taken to ride is very different or the mileage is very different. If it does, I will simply reload the route until the device gets it right

B. Sometimes, even if the device has summoned up and displayed the route properly, it can take the device a while to realise that I am riding the route in the correct direction. This is most noticeable if I ride off a route (I have auto-recalculate turned off) and then ride back onto it further along. The device will sometimes not give me the turn by turn instructions for a while. It knows where I am (I can see the position marker moving along) and it knows where the route is (I can see the position marker moving along the magenta line) but the device has not rejoined the two together. This can sometimes go on for several miles, then suddenly the two will snap together with zero input from me. Why? I have no idea. If it goes on too long I will, on the move, manually stop the route and summon it up again, pretty confident that the device will then behave properly

To be honest though, both A and B scenarios are pretty rare in their most extreme form. I’d like think I am pretty good at using the devices, so do not panic too badly (or get very cross) when odd things happen. Generally, I can sort them out on the hoof.


I agree, I would like to try it all out on an XT to definitely see if I can help you more. A subscriber from UKGSer has potentially let me borrow theirs for a bit, but not until we can meet up, the virus thing preventing us from getting together or either of us travelling needlessly. I own a Mac and have been reading that as (apparently) the XT is an android device, so it will not easily converse with BaseCamp on a Mac. I am ready (I think) for when that happens. I have no idea at all what half of it means but I am sure it can’t be too difficult if the instructions as to what to do are right.

On your last paragraph’s observation. That might (I don’t know) be down to nothing more than a bad satellite positional signal at one point but that is just a guess as to a possibility. Again, it is odd what you have experienced, out on the road as opposed to through simulation. The 660, a really good device, the first with a super-duper new fast chip, had a significant glitch on launch whereby the devices (it was common to all) would lose lots of its positional computing and display capabilities. It use to often display you riding along about 500 metres off the road. It was fixed very quickly via an update, the device still popular with many owners. I loved mine, for sure.

This thread answers a lot of the remaining mysteries:

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...-new-function-in-the-XT?p=5667887#post5667887

In particular post 11

Tomcat said:

OK, I've done a few experiments with a routes made between the same start and finish points, all of which pass within a few hundred yards of my location. I've then used the closest entry point to get to the magenta line. Some of the routes were planned in Basecamp and exported and others were modified by adding and removing shaping points in the XT Trip Planner.

1. Fastest route between start and end points only, which uses the M25 and creates a route that is furthest from me relative to my location. In this case the closest entry point takes me location on the route that is closest to me, and uses the remainder of the original route to get to the destination. Exactly what you'd hope for

2. Same start and end points but now there are two shaping points, one in front and one behind, that make the route completely different to version 1. The closest point of entry is now nearer to my location than 1. This time closest entry point takes me to the nearest point on the route (which is behind the final shaping point), on to the final shaping point and then on to the destination using the original route. So basically, you get taken towards the nearest shaping point which in my test route was closer to my entry point than the destination.

2a. In this route there are again two shaping points, both behind the closest point of entry. The route to the closest point goes directly there, and on to the destination. It ignores the shaping behinds that are behind. This is exactly what I want.

3. The route is now shaped by a flagged waypoint which is behind the closest point of entry In this case it takes me to the closest entry point, back to the waypoint and then on to the destination. You'd need to look at the route display in 2D map form (this is my default in any case) and use the 'Skip Waypoint' icon to avoid being taken back.

4. This is route 1, fastest, turned into a track in Basecamp, imported as a track to the XT and turned into a trip on the XT. Closest entry here does exactly the same as condition 1.


So it seems to me to work in a very logical way. If there are no added shaping points or waypoints it will take you to the closest entry point on the route. I'm not sure if this is calculated using the XT's route preferences as my route segments were quite short, but it probably is. If there are shaping points present you're taken to the next one in front, along the route. If all the shaping points are behind the closest entry point they are ignored. If there's a waypoint behind the closest entry point it takes you there first, then on to the destination.

Top marks to Garmin

Click to expand...

This is not a fair test and to me answers none of the remaining mysteries
I have done sumular to this during testing and got the same results as Tomcat

Put a 150 mile long route on the XT in the countryside with loads of road choices
Go and ride it...Not simulate it or keep trying to rejoint at the same point...Thats what i did...It was only then i noticed the problems when stopping and restarting the route

Garry,

We have successfully helped to put to bed and clear up many of the misunderstandings. To avoid this thread deteriorating any further into a circular discussion, I’ll close it down. That will leave just the other thread open:

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...87#post5667887

Where hopefully everything can be resolved one way or another.

Richard