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Thread: part way along a saved route, stop the route then restart it. A problem....

  1. #17
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    Garry H, please don’t be offended but I think there might be some user error in your problem. Or, more diplomatically, some misunderstanding as to how the latest generation of Garmin devices function. If I am wrong, so be it. Here’s why:

    In the XT’s owner’s handbook, there’s a section called; ‘Navigating to a saved trip’. Garmin calls routes, trips in the new devices, so I think we are in the right bit of the book.

    Navigating to a Saved Trip

    1. Select Apps > Trip Planner > Saved Trips

    2. Select a saved trip

    3. Select Go!

    4. Select the first location to navigate to, and select Start.

    The device calculates a route from your current location to the selected location, and then it guides you to the remaining trip destinations in order.


    These instructions are the same or pretty similar for my Nav V and VI, so they do not seem peculiar to just the new XT. Agreed so far? OK, let’s try to see what I think happened to you.

    I assume that when you started the route for the first time, you were at its start point, A. I guess that you then selected some point that you wanted to go to from the menu of choices of destinations. This would either have been the end point or one of the six waypoints you put into your bespoke route. Correct? If so, whichever one you chose, the route behaved quite normally, just as you’d expect. OK so far? Let’s continue....

    At some point, some way into your ride, the device turned itself off or the route stopped running. Why this happened is not known but it maybe doesn’t matter too much. You then restarted the route, just as anyone would do in the same position. On restart, you would have been presented with the same menu as to where on the route you would like to go to: Start, end or one of the six intermediate waypoints. Agreed?

    I guess you chose one of the waypoints in front of you or the end point? It’s what any logical person would do, as you want to go forwards, not backwards. That, on the latest devices CAN cause a problem depending on a number of variables. We saw lots of posts on the very same topic when the previous new models came out. Put simply, they work differently to the old models. When you chose your destination, the device said to itself, “Right, you have asked me to take you there, I will, according to your routing preferences”. Inevitably this might change your pre-planned route. This change might be dramatic, particularly if the destination you chose was some way distant and there was a number of roads the device could chose from. To be frank, it’s one of the faults in the new Garmin’s whereby they pander to the lowest common denominator of user. But there again, that is not quite true either. The device is quite clever and it does exactly what you asked it to do. The feature also has its uses. Let’s say you were running late and wanted to get to a waypoint some way away and then wanted to carry on your pre-planned route from there; in short, cut out some beautiful wander around the countryside you had planned to do and get off down a motorway instead to make up time. You could say to the device, take me to the point I select by the quickest way possible and then run the route from there. It would do exactly that. Quite clever. Agreed?

    Understandably, you were frustrated and maybe confused that your device was changing your route? I was the first time you encountered it. So you did the next best logical thing, you selected a point behind you. Which one doesn’t matter. The device then calculated you a route to take you back to that point, whereupon it picked up the ‘correct’ route again, which displayed perfectly. You then overrode in your mind the instruction to ride backwards down the magenta line. Instead, you rode forwards towards your destination. In other words, you rode the ‘correct’ magenta line much as if it were a highlighted route on a paper map. Had you had recalculate turned on, the route would have kept recalculating taking you back to the first destination you had asked your XT to take you to, along with continuous instructions to turn back or make a U-turn. This was why I asked if you were receiving any directional prompts? I will have a bet that you didn’t. You then arrived home, frustrated probably but at least you were home.

    Have I got this about right?

    If so, there are some workarounds you can use. But let’s hear from you first, please.

    Thanks,

    Richard


    PS I have been pretty harsh on the latest Garmin devices. They really are pretty powerful and even more so when used properly in conjunction with BaseCamp. Stay with it, I am sure the XT is a very good device really.

  2. #18
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    Garry H, please don’t be offended
    Don't worry i am not

    But just to reiterate i do know what i am doing you don't need to keep trying to tell me how to use the XT
    The device did not turn itself off nor did the route stop on it's own
    I stopped it to see what it did when you tried to restart a route part way through as you would if you decided to go on a detour
    From past experience with some other Garmin devices i know this can be a issue and it is with the XT

    And i stand by what i say Wapping.....You can't possible comment on a unit you do not have any experience with
    Some of the comments you have made you have totally misunderstood what i am saying
    Please don't keep telling me how to use it I KNOW

    On another point something else that XT does not do is when you put it into simulator mode allow you move to a location
    So as far as i can see you can't alter where you are to a differnt location say 50 miles away...Unless someone else knows how to do this i

    This is the option i am talking about on the 276cx
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #19
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    Good luck resolving the problem. No doubt another XT owner will be along to help you.... or complain.

    Richard

  4. #20
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    Well i thought as much
    The latest firmware update has possibly sorted the problem

    Track to route now works fine and from doing some simulations as far as i can tell jumping in half way through a route works
    But i will need to test it on the road to check for sure....Not easy at the moment

  5. #21
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    Splendid news for a sunny day in lockdown

  6. #22
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    Routing tested out now and it's still far from working properly
    Next update with a bit of luck

  7. #23
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    Are you testing this out on the road with an actual route of some distance or in simulation mode only?

    There was an optimistic post reporting that the device was working as you expected it should after the update, a week ago. What has gone wrong? What has improved? What is it still not yet doing perfectly?

    At the moment you seem to be the only person testing the device. Any fuller information you can provide will, I am sure, be helpful to other early owners of this new device.

    Thank you.

  8. #24
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    Here is a problem i have seen on mine
    Plot a route in base camp with the same map and profile selected
    Transfer it to the unit and start to navigate the route
    All goes well until you find you have put a waypoint 50 meteres off the road so you don't get to it ( you just drive past )
    The XT sometimes / often won't route you to the next waypoint on the route it just keeps trying to take you to the one you have just missed
    No matter what you do ( i can't find a way to sort this out ) the route is not running correctly after this happens
    Cancel the route and restart it and the chances are you will not get the route you planned it will recalculate it...But not allways
    It depends how close you are to a route waypoint
    Just put a destination in the unit and it works fine

    Also if you stop the route ( to find a fuel station as a example )
    When you try and restart it and use the jump in at nearest point option it will just screw the route you planned up
    But not always if you move a mile down the road it might then work but there again it might not
    It's just got a mind of it's own and for this at the moment the XT gets a big no no from me

  9. #25
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    Your first issue with the wanting to route you back to a missed waypoint, is it actually a waypoint or shaping point ?, if waypoint this will happen if shaping point it should ignore and carry on, so if it is a waypoint as you say, change it.

    A waypoint is an instruction telling the route it must take you there no matter what unless you intervene, as in skip or ignore.

  10. #26
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    All goes well until you find you have put a waypoint 50 meteres off the road so you don't get to it ( you just drive past )
    The XT sometimes / often won't route you to the next waypoint on the route it just keeps trying to take you to the one you have just missed
    No matter what you do ( i can't find a way to sort this out )
    OK, that should be easy to sort out. You have told us you have put a waypoint, not a shaping point, somewhere along your A to B route. If that is it, then here’s why:

    A. It matters not if the waypoint is 50 metres off a road or on a road. If you miss it out, the device will keep trying its very best to take you to that point

    B. A waypoint is an electric point (a beacon if you like) that you have told the dumb device you MUST go through. Most commonly they are used to navigate in deserts or on featureless oceans. That is why it is taking you back, so the device can obey you command (given to it when the route was created) that you must pass through it in order to continue onwards

    If it had been a simple shaping point, used to drag and pin a route onto a specific road (or 50 metres into a field) it wouldn’t. You may well get an ‘off route’ notice flash up (you told us that you have auto-recalculate turned off) which, logically, you can just ignore.

    As to ‘sorting it out’, you can convert waypoints into shaping points and visa-versa from within BaseCamp or from within most Garmin modern devices themselves. See threads on how to do this. Alternatively, most modern devices have a ‘Skip waypoint’ option. Some odd things can happen when this is pushed as the device will recalculate the route from where you are to the next waypoint (or end point) ahead. This recalculation will, by default, be made according to your preference settings. If there is only one road, you probably wouldn’t notice it happen. If there are several alternatives, you might well see a difference.


    As to the rest of post #24.....


    You keep telling us that the XT is not behaving itself. From your description above and from earlier ones it is behaving itself (in its own peculiar way) and has been all along. It is working just as my Nav VI and Nav V, both comparatively modern devices, do. Look at past posts in the Nav V and VI sections, you’ll see just the same scenarios and user frustrations playing out. We don’t see so many of them now as people have got used to using them. There are all sorts of ways you can navigate onto a route that you have stopped and restarted, all of them reliable. They were explained to you earlier in this thread, along with other offered of help but you rejected them, determined that your device was malfunctioning or needed a software update. Several people doubted this but their advice fell on deaf ears.

    Tip 1. Do not use a waypoint unless you really must go through that point

    Tip 2. Don’t place waypoints (or indeed shaping points) 50 meters off the road, unless you want to go there

    Tip 3. Use shaping points (not waypoints) to shape and pull the magenta line to where you want it to go

    Tip 4. Read up about the ‘skip waypoint’ facility, assuming the XT features it. I’d be surprised if it didn’t

    Tip 5. Don’t shout at the device, it can’t hear you

    Tip 6. Don’t shout at people who, with the best of intentions, have tried to help you since your opening post

    Your round...


  11. #27
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    Hi Garry,

    A good while back I did some testing using a Navigator 6. The tests pertained to exactly the issue you experienced - deviating from a route mid-way, returning to the route and being able to follow the route as originally designed. I explored three scenarios where this might occur - have a look here for more details...

    https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...update-testing

    I know the behaviours I found relate to the Nav6 and not the XT, but the results were found AFTER the update to version 4.90 of the firmware. Would be interesting to see if the XT behaves in the same way after the latest update you have applied to it. The newer (and supposedly smarter) devices make it more difficult to blindly follow a pre-designed route in the same way as the likes of the Zumo 550 did, but hopefully by exploring what they do in certain situations, we can at least predict how they will behave before heading off on our epic bike tours...

    Hope this helps (even a little),
    Seán.

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry H View Post
    Here is a problem i have seen on mine
    Plot a route in base camp with the same map and profile selected
    Transfer it to the unit and start to navigate the route
    All goes well until you find you have put a waypoint 50 meteres off the road so you don't get to it ( you just drive past )
    The XT sometimes / often won't route you to the next waypoint on the route it just keeps trying to take you to the one you have just missed
    No matter what you do ( i can't find a way to sort this out ) the route is not running correctly after this happens
    Hey Garry, Always check your waypoints & shaping points in Basecamp before you transfer the route, this is crucial.
    Once the route is built in Basecamp in the lower left hand pane will be all your waypoints and the route, double click the route and a window will pop up listing your waypoints and shaping points within the route from start to finish.
    Double click each waypoint/shaping point and Basecamp will give you a view on where each one is placed in relation to road or junction.

    If a few are like you described 50 feet/meters off the road there is an editing tool to move the point onto the road without changing your route.
    It takes a little extra time but saves so much pain.

  13. #29
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    Thanks for the input boys
    I will try the same using only shaping points not a mixture of both like i do with my montana and 276cx
    The 276cx and the montana do not exhibit this problem and handle routes from basecamp far better than the XT
    They also let you jump into a route at any point without recalculating it and for me this is a big issue
    Last edited by Wapping; 10-04-20 at 14:49. Reason: Moved the question / observation snout the screen’s reflective qualities

  14. #30
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    Now we are cooking on gas Problem one resolved.

    You can jump onto a route without recalculating it. Similarly you can, mid-route, include a deviation off to a petrol station without altering the planned route too fundamentally.

  15. #31
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    You can not jump onto a route without recalculating it
    But sometimes you can it depends where you are and it should not
    Put a deviation in and you won't have the same route you started with

  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry H View Post
    You can not jump onto a route without recalculating it
    But sometimes you can it depends where you are and it should not
    Put a deviation in and you won't have the same route you started with
    yes you can

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