Closest entry point... A new function in the XT

All good info and many thanks for posting,

Spangle, Quote, I ignored the suggested route (with ‘recalculate’ switched off) & simply headed west from Alsager to join the route at the actual closest point.

Spangle once the you were back on your created route, did the nav recognise that and carry on as normal.

Jfheath, Quote, Except there seems to be a new 'feature' with the XT, which reveals itself when using 'Closest Point'. When selecting Closest Point when STARTing a route, the XT will choose a Via Point. It will not choose a Shaping Point. It will not go back against the flow of the route (although how it decides this I have yet to discover

Does this happen when you are starting a route, say half way along its length after a night stopover away from the actual route, or only when you are starting the route for the first time at the begining of the route.
 
I've just done a few more checks to see what happens with 'closest entry point' on the type of routes that I typically make. These only have two named waypoints, the start and end. All other points are shaping points, but if these happen to coincide with a named feature on the map they become alert points by default (they can be changed to non-alert in Basecamp and on the XT).

I have two duplicate routes, with two shaping points between my logical closest entry point and the destination. On one of these the final shaping point is set to alert. These make the route quite different to the fastest route from my location to the destination. There is also one alerting shaping point 'behind' my closest entry point.

When I choose Go, and Closest entry point, the XT always takes me to the nearest entry point on the route and then on to the destination via the remaining shaping points. It does not matter if these are set to alert or not alert. It ignores the alerting point which is nearby but behind the entry point.

So in summary it does exactly as I want, takes me to the nearest point on the magenta line, ignores what lies behind and carries on using the planned route with its shaping points.

BTW, I was wrong about the XT turning off its power when switched off. It seems to go into a sleep mode like the Nav V as my battery has gone down over the last couple of days.

I'm not sure what has happened with Spangle's route (Hi Gary, this is Jeremy :)) but as it came from 3rd party MyRoute there may be something different about the properties of the shaping points. Or the XT might even have noted that the predominant route direction is south and taken him to the nearest entry in a southerly direction. My test routes are too short to test this possibility.
 
I've just done a few more checks to see what happens with 'closest entry point' on the type of routes that I typically make. These only have two named waypoints, the start and end. All other points are shaping points, but if these happen to coincide with a named feature on the map they become alert points by default (they can be changed to non-alert in Basecamp and on the XT).

I have two duplicate routes, with two shaping points between my logical closest entry point and the destination. On one of these the final shaping point is set to alert. These make the route quite different to the fastest route from my location to the destination. There is also one alerting shaping point 'behind' my closest entry point.

When I choose Go, and Closest entry point, the XT always takes me to the nearest entry point on the route and then on to the destination via the remaining shaping points. It does not matter if these are set to alert or not alert. It ignores the alerting point which is nearby but behind the entry point.

So in summary it does exactly as I want, takes me to the nearest point on the magenta line, ignores what lies behind and carries on using the planned route with its shaping points.

BTW, I was wrong about the XT turning off its power when switched off. It seems to go into a sleep mode like the Nav V as my battery has gone down over the last couple of days.

I'm not sure what has happened with Spangle's route (Hi Gary, this is Jeremy :)) but as it came from 3rd party MyRoute there may be something different about the properties of the shaping points. Or the XT might even have noted that the predominant route direction is south and taken him to the nearest entry in a southerly direction. My test routes are too short to test this possibility.

Hello mate, didn’t realise I was being stalked Are we the sole WV pioneers with the XT?!


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I selected ‘join route at nearest point’ and it took me approx 20 miles south on the A500, south of Stoke and joined the route between waypoints 7 & 8 near Stone.

This was with MyRouteApp ? I did a bit of research using their free trial promotion a while back. While it does a good job of creating files for the Garmin Zumos, adopting the same customized GPX file format, there appeared to be some differences in the way that the points behaved when in the Zumo. I'd need to dig out my notes to remember what the issue was that stopped me from using it any further.


Jfheath, Quote, Except there seems to be a new 'feature' with the XT, which reveals itself when using 'Closest Point'. When selecting Closest Point when STARTing a route, the XT will choose a Via Point. It will not choose a Shaping Point. It will not go back against the flow of the route (although how it decides this I have yet to discover)

Does this happen when you are starting a route, say half way along its length after a night stopover away from the actual route, or only when you are starting the route for the first time at the begining of the route.

Sorry - I didn't get back to you on this point. I still need to find out about that.

At present, my unit is turning itself off and resetting itself (eg the active route and GPS simulation), so I have to restart the route each time. But until this morning it hadn't seen daylight, I have been putting it through its paces transferring routes and seeing what happens just before I hit 'Start', and also simulating the route and seeing what points remain intact after skipping. It is still in its brand new setting - which means that it gives the warning messages at the start each time. As soon as I move away from my present location, I think that behaviour will change.

This mornings little exercise was a disaster. I plotted a walking route and then went a different way to see how it recovered from missed Shaping points. It was doing something odd, but I think I put in too many varieties of points. And walking at only 3 miles per hour between houses, I'm not sure it was picking up a decent satellite signal. I have more to do on that. I don't go out to work, so I can't legitimately take the car or bike out. But next time we go to the shops, the satnav will be pre-loaded with test routes …..

Every Garmin I have owned (550, 660, 590, 595) has remembered the route and the current position. As soon as it has been turned on again, it is in exactly the same state as when it was turned off. (Either soft or hard power off). It holds its position in a file called Position.gpx. I would expect the XT to behave the same. But that is no guarantee, of course.

You could start the route off again, and let it find the nearest point of entry - but it will go for the next Via Point, WayPoint or non alerting Waypoint on the route - which could be way down the road. This would be yet another good reason for setting up an Alerting Waypoint a couple of miles down the road from a stop-over. It makes restarting a route a very simple process, and obviates the need for a Closest Entry Point Function - though I can see that it would have its uses, providing that the picture in my head as to how it works matches what it actually does ! Its just a matter of working it out.
 
quote, Every Garmin I have owned (550, 660, 590, 595) has remembered the route and the current position, i agree but aparently according to some the XT will not allow you to carry on from the position you stopped at on the route, not without buggering the route up.
 
Tomcat
there is no way when out navigating on the road that i can get the XT to reliably get the closest entry point to work on a route with a waypoit ant each end and shaping points for the rest
I think when you get your XT out and try it with a few different routes in the field you will not get it to do what you want
Very oftern the XT will just take you straight to the last waypoint on a route that it calculates for it's self

I have also found that on the road you need to visit waypoints i have rode for miles on the magenta line and it just tries to keep sending you back
It will let you miss shaping points but like i said it will not repick a route up properly again using shaping points in the middle
 
quote, Every Garmin I have owned (550, 660, 590, 595) has remembered the route and the current position, i agree but aparently according to some the XT will not allow you to carry on from the position you stopped at on the route, not without buggering the route up.

I have noted the reset 'feature' of the XT. I have ignored it so far as my XT has not been used in a vehicle as yet. It still starts up with the EULA.
I have been experimenting with the 595 software on my 590, and switched back and forth a number of times. Each time I do so, the device becomes brand new again and stops working quite the same way as it does once it has been out on the road for a few miles.
So I am assuming that the XT. Will have similar issues until I can take it out in the car or on the pushbike.
 
Tomcat
there is no way when out navigating on the road that i can get the XT to reliably get the closest entry point to work on a route with a waypoit ant each end and shaping points for the rest
I think when you get your XT out and try it with a few different routes in the field you will not get it to do what you want
Very oftern the XT will just take you straight to the last waypoint on a route that it calculates for it's self

I have also found that on the road you need to visit waypoints i have rode for miles on the magenta line and it just tries to keep sending you back
It will let you miss shaping points but like i said it will not repick a route up properly again using shaping points in the middle

Apologies for repeating info I have posted previously, but this is in response to the above scenario. I remember all too well the headache and frustration I had when I switched to my then new Zumo 590. Much of what you said reminds me of what I thought I was seeing at the time. I seriously regretted buying it. But it wan't the Zumo. It was my lack of understanding how this new device worked. It was oh so different from the superb usable 660. It was a steep learning curve.

When selecting the next destination when starting a route, the XT will only allow you to choose Via Points. If you choose the start point, it will insist on taking you to that point first. If you you had already gone oast the start, and you head off on the magenta line, that magenta line is still trying to get you to visit the start point that you missed.

If you realise that this is what is happening, and press SKIP, it will calculate a new route from where you are now up to the next Via Point or Shaping Point. It will not re-calculate any part of the route beyond the next routing point.

If at the start you only have two points listed, the start point and the end point and you select the end point as your next destination, the Zumos will calculate a new route to the end and it will not contain any of your intermediate Shaping Points. It may oass through where they were, but that is just by chance.

When a route has been started, there is a way to you can display the whole route on a map. It will show the route that it is about to embark on, and will show flags for the Via Points and blue circles for the non-alerting Points. You dont need to be on the road to see what the route us going to be. You can do it at home - but pick a route that is close to home otherwise it will have to calculate a route to get you to the start.

You will note that if you choose the start point as your next destination when you press START, your route map will have flags and blue circles all along the route. If you select the end point, it will show only the flags to mark where you are now and the end. Nothing in between.


The Closest Entry Point function uses the same logic as the Select Next Destination option. But instead of you selecting the next destination, the Zumo selects the start point for you. It will plot a course of its own to the point it selects, missing out any points on the route before its selected entry point. It will choose the entry point from the list of Via Points on the route. It will not choose Shaping Points as the point if entry.....

Except ... if you create your routing points using the Waypoint tool in Basecamp - the flag tool - it may choose from any of those as well
And in case you hadn't realised, a Waypoint can be put into a route and is set as a Via Point by default. But you can change it to be non alerting, so that it looks like a Shaping Point. But even though it looks like a Shaping Point, the fact that it was created as a flag Waypoint makes it available as a candidate for being the Closest Entry Point.

Again, you can check the route that the Zumo will use and what Via Points and Shaping Points remain by displaying the route map after selecting Closest Entry Point, and before hitting START.
 
Spot on from jfheath, particularly the bit:

But it wan't the Zumo. It was my lack of understanding how this new device worked. It was oh so different from the superb usable 660. It was a steep learning curve.

I had exactly the same when I went over to the Nav V, the first of the new Garmin derived devices, very different in use and operation to my earlier Nav IV, 660, 550 etc and a world away from my Quest. A steep learning curve indeed. Even now, after thousands of miles there are things I learn or (more usually) things I relearn because I have forgotten. In essence, the basic core of the various devices’ purpose never changes, it is a simple, Get me from A to B, tool. It’s their mode of operation for carrying out that simple A to B task that evolves, along with new additional modes of use that come along. I long ago found that saying, “But my 660 did it differently” was true but ultimately pointless, simply as my Nav V does it very differently.
 
Bang on there Rich... The XT is certainly different in operation to my other Garmins
 
The Closest Entry Point function uses the same logic as the Select Next Destination option. But instead of you selecting the next destination, the Zumo selects the start point for you. It will plot a course of its own to the point it selects, missing out any points on the route before its selected entry point. It will choose the entry point from the list of Via Points on the route.
It will not choose Shaping Points as the point if entry.....

Except ... if you create your routing points using the Waypoint tool in Basecamp - the flag tool - it may choose from any of those as well
And in case you hadn't realised, a Waypoint can be put into a route and is set as a Via Point by default. But you can change it to be non alerting, so that it looks like a Shaping Point. But even though it looks like a Shaping Point, the fact that it was created as a flag Waypoint makes it available as a candidate for being the Closest Entry Point.

Update.

Well it seems that all I have to do to get Garmin to fix a problem, is to spend ages working out what the Zumo XT is doing and then post it on here. The above point (highlighted in red) WAS true at the time that I wrote it - 4 days ago. But it is now wrong.
So is part of my Post #33 of 21 April. The Shaping point issue seems to have been resolved in a recent software update.

I connected my XT up to Garmin Express yesterday and it had a few minor updates available which included an update to fix issues with Closest Entry Point. It will now observe shaping points after it has located the closest point of entry. I haven't worked how it does it, but so far my tests have produced some very acceptable results.

nb I had already updated to 2.50 system software, but when I connected to Express yesterday, it seemed to have a few additional updates to install - including the closest entry point feature. I should have taken a screen shot - I can't go back to it now to see exactly what it said. But worth checking out.
 
Just connect mine to express and updated it ( even though the unit said it was up to date )...Thanks for the tip :beerjug:
Looks to me like it has sorted the problem out i was having ( will have to test it out on the road thought to be sure )
I have been saying all along there was a problem that needed sorting out in firmware and some people were saying " no it's you or my unit was faulty "
Hopefully Garmin have now sorted it :thumb
 
Update.

I connected my XT up to Garmin Express yesterday and it had a few minor updates available which included an update to fix issues with Closest Entry Point. It will now observe shaping points after it has located the closest point of entry. I haven't worked how it does it, but so far my tests have produced some very acceptable results.

Yes, that's what I posted on the 24th.
 
Just connect mine to express and updated it ( even though the unit said it was up to date )...Thanks for the tip :beerjug:
Looks to me like it has sorted the problem out i was having ( will have to test it out on the road thought to be sure )
I have been saying all along there was a problem that needed sorting out in firmware and some people were saying " no it's you or my unit was faulty "
Hopefully Garmin have now sorted it :thumb

That is not fair. Several of your problems were not problems at all; these we resolved for you. In between we had threads that started with one issue, then changed to be another issue, then another. So many were these that they had to be broken up into more than one thread or everyone went around in circles. That has been true of other threads in the XT section, that required breaking up. At the end of it all you (and we) were left with a problem that, between us all, we could not resolve. That problem was indeed the glitch with the XT. Faced with this unresolved problem, it was you that was suggesting (amongst other things) that your device might be faulty, which nobody doubted.

I am sure that nobody makes an apology for trying to help you.

Anyway, it looks like it's all being fixed which will be an immense relief to everyone.

:beerjug:
 
Yes, that's what I posted on the 24th.

Yes - I had spotted your post. I had already installed v2.50 system software so I assumed that I would have the Closest Entry Point upgrade, but it was still ignoring Shaping Points (except non-alerting Waypoints) when choosing a point of entry.

The small update to the software the other day, fixed that, and it is now recognising Shaping Points - and coming up with some sensible routes to get to the closest entry point. For me at any rate, installing 2.50 seemed to be a two stage process !

Garmin normally publish a list of software updates, but I have not yet found one for the XT.
 
Yes - I had spotted your post. I had already installed v2.50 system software so I assumed that I would have the Closest Entry Point upgrade, but it was still ignoring Shaping Points (except non-alerting Waypoints) when choosing a point of entry.

The small update to the software the other day, fixed that, and it is now recognising Shaping Points - and coming up with some sensible routes to get to the closest entry point. For me at any rate, installing 2.50 seemed to be a two stage process !

Yep i thought exactly the same

This is why you need people who own a XT to help :rob
 
Having just got an XT i've found the above fascinating reading and very informative even if, for me, more than a little difficult to understand in places. Thank's to the contributors :thumb2
 


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