Another XT glitch... via points that move!

jfheath

Registered user
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
102
Reaction score
5
Location
Yorkshire
I have started you a fresh thread for this new glitch topic. Richard


I have found another glitch. Just using the trip planner on the Zumo XT itself.

Create a route. Give it a start point and an end point on an A road (mine was about 3 miles long), and then place a middle point but find a B road - when there is an obvious faster A road. Save it and check the map.

Now make the middle point a shaping point by clicking on the flag in the route list. It changes it to a shaping point.
On mine, the name changed, and a quick look at the map revealed that it had moved my original point to be on the faster A road.

I tried again with a different 3 point route - but turned off all maps except one . Same result.

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
Now, that is odd.

No device should move the physical placement of a viapoint (a yellow flag) following its conversion into a shaping point (a blue dot) from within the device itself. I can only assume you have your XT’s preference set to fastest time? If so and your thrice repeated findings are correct, then it would seem that the XT overrides the placement point in favour of complying with the fastest route preference. I can see no good reason why it should do that. Surely it should leave the shaping point where it is, make its recalculation (which it has to do) and the end result should be as you intended it to be originally.

What happens if you put a favourite (a waypoint) into the mid-route spot and convert that? Does that move, too?
 
Odd indeed. I wonder if anyone else would care to try this little test for me please ?

It makes no difference what the routing preferences are. Faster time, shorter route, off road. They all do exactly the same thing.
The start and finish were both selected using the 'Browse Map' facility. The middle point I tested with both the Browse Map and by adding it as a Favourite.

Here are the screen shots using motorcycle and Off Road.

1. Create a Favourite using the Map View, tap the screen and select a point to drop a marker. Click the name that pops up and click save to save the favourite.
(or wait until later and add the middle point using the same Browse Map facility as the other two)

58708.png


2. Create a new route. Add a start and an end point - both using Browse Map.
3. Add a middle point - either by using Browse Map, or by adding the Favourite you saved in step 1.

At this point, the route looks like this. - shown in my final test for 'Off Road'. The map on the right can be obtained by clicking the Map button on the list of points screen on the left.
If Fastest or Shorter routing options are selected, the result is the same, except route is plotted along the obvious yellow road passing through Steeton and Eastburn

780496.png
777490.png


4. No need to do anything with the route - except change the mid point orange flag to a shaping point. Click the orange flag on the route list view on the left.
The following screen is shown whenever a Via Point like this is changed to a shaping point.

780891.png


5. The orange Via Point flag has changed to a blue circle (Shaping Point), but look at the name. A name change is expected. This was a Waypoint - a Favourite - and I am allowed to give them a name of my own - I changed the suggested B6265 to Hospital. Shaping points seem get their names by looking up the coordinates on the map. However, the A629 is the green road to the north.
Note the map on the right though.

The new shaping point is now shown in a completely different place - on the A629
Not only that, but this Off Road route now follows the road - the points are not joined by straight lines.

781340.png
782293.png


As I said, I get exactly the same results whether or not I use a favourite. And exactly the same for all three different transportation modes.

The favourite itself (Hospital) is still saved and in the correct place. So changing the Via Point to a Shaping hasn't changed the original point, it has created a new shaping point, and put it in the wrong place.
 
I will try to have a go doing the same, hopefully at the same points on the map, with a Nav V.
 
I never thought of that ! I've just tried it on my 590/5 and it does exactly the same thing.

Not an XT issue then. I wonder if my 590/5 has the same problem with my walking test. Maybe I am worrying about nothing.
 
I've just tried it on my 590/5 and it does exactly the same thing.

That’s odd as it doesn’t do it on my Nav V.

Here is what I did.

I recreated your route A6034 > Priory Hospital Keighley > 53 Skipton Road, as nearly as I could in my Nav V. I didn’t create the route in BaseCamp or anything like that.

The first time I did it in car mode, fastest time, with the hospital as a favourite (orange flag)

76d5392b66c9460dfb96d0dbf8805fa4.plist


The displayed route was fine.

4cffd043f03871d8599cdc8445ab4eb2.plist



I then changed the hospital into a shaping point (blue dot)

264dc8cd1ceea0036e2f9e7edfedf755.plist


This brought on the inevitable recalculation

7b9064af5eb8cf77e86aae7f8bcecdad.plist


but again the route was fine

9d382e19f4d096498814aeddc78dffd7.plist


The only difference being that (not surprisingly) the yellow flag has vanished, only the heart remaining. This did not surprise me as I had saved the hospital as a favourite in my device, simply to make it easier to create the A to B to C route.

I then drove the route in simulation mode. As I expected, it drove perfectly, leaving the start on the A6034, straight ahead at the roundabout, crossing the A629

0fb2101e4a3bb05853ec44534235899e.plist


driving on to the hospital, where (as expected) it spun around.

8a6b082c753df287a4ddc5c1b5c6a0d5.plist


The position cursor then retraced its steps, back the way it had come, correctly following the route

3ad6658a808fae1747bad6479bc1da59.plist


back to the roundabout, where it dutifully turned left on the A629 and then drove to the end point at 53 Skipton Road.

I then changed the mode to off road and ran the same route twice. Once with the hospital as a viapoint (orange flag) and once with it simply as a favourite (blue dot).

Each time it behaved perfectly, despite inevitable recalculations when between switching modes and then switching between the qualities of the hospital.

5da8a77427a2f6584e7fa3a5b0f760f7.plist


32b97d7044674bdcff607bb93d4f50e5.plist


In short, it all behaved exactly as it should do and exactly as I expected it would. I would have been happy to drive all and any of the routes in real life, confident that the real life experience would match that of route simulation.

I then wondered if, as I had created the hospital as a favourite, whether that made any difference.

I deleted the hospital from my favourites and deleted to A to B to C route. To all intents and purposes my device was clean.

Again, in car mode, fastest time, I asked the device for a route but this time, just A to B, A6034 > 53 Skipton Road, which it did perfectly

2f790a4a17dc78e99c34fd07c927bcb3.plist


7d6502fa697257389a665daa9c80b46b.plist


I then asked my device to find me a hospital near the route, which it did

b1674cca073eca9d297a949cb1c0f2ba.plist


As it’s the same hospital as we have used before, I asked the device to insert it into the route. This it did with the inevitable recalculation

fd438e24d145178de7bf52398ea4b367.plist


The offered up route was perfect, the hospital midway as I expected it to be, marked by an orange via point flag

42d9e5ef5adf396acd3fe57d954c566f.plist


I then asked the device to change the hospital into a shaping point (blue dot). Again, this required a recalculation to be performed but the end result was again, perfect. The orange flag had simply been replaced by a blue, shaping point, dot

e186f076436381e1086d4eff25a0840a.plist


I can offer no logical explanation as to why your XT AND your 590/5 differ so dramatically from my Nav V. I certainly can’t replicate it. Switching the qualities of a predetermined point between a favourite, a via point and a shaping point should not (despite recalculation) alter a route’s path A to B to C. Certainly the placement of the point should not move, nor should it be missed out.
 
Thanks for taking the time to do this.

I never knew we had a 'Priory Hospital' just there !! Mine was on the road near that large pink area left of Thornhill road - which encourages the route to take the yellow B6265 rather than turn back to the green dual carriageway.

But that doesn't make a difference. I reproduced your route and mine still did something stupid - it changed the Via Point to a Shaping Point and placed the shaping point just north of the roundabout - about where the magenta line exits the picture in the top right corner.

I am wondering if it has to do with either the upgrade, or the new maps. As well as the 2.50 system software, there have been a couple of patches - still 2.50, one of which affects the Closest Entry Point - apparently.

My thought is that if a programmer used an existing routing to include in the Closest Entry Point calculation, then found it was at fault, and then modified the routing - without considering that the same routine was used in another area - …….

Reason I think this - it looks as though the point is being put at a key place where the present route and the fastest route separate. It is then looking up the coordinates on the map to get a name. I can see how something that might form part of the Closest Entry Point algorithm.

If anyone else can chip in, I could do with knowing :-

if this is an XT issue
Or a 2.50 software issue (I didn't start this until I had upgraded from 2.30
Or a map issue. I upgraded from 2020.2 to 2020.3

I've got a few days before I need to do any shopping, so I can't get it in the car until then. In the meantime I am going to recheck the Closest Entry Point tests - see if they have improved the behaviour. I bet they have got rid of that really useful feature which seems to have set non-alerting waypoints as being different from shaping points. I hope not though - but it depends what they have done to 'improve' it.

I've often wondered what it would be like to be a Beta Tester.;)
 
Different devices but my Nav V is running map set 2020.3 and is up-to-date with its software at version 3.5.

It is very odd this phenomenon you have found. I have been promised the use of an XT but not until the Covid-19 thing is over, understandably. It’s a pity as holding onto one would mean I could try to replicate your findings exactly.

Is it possible to wind back your XT to its earlier map and software? I have never tried doing it, though others have reportedly done so on other devices.

Have you tried the same exercise but using more via points, say four to see what happens if you change just one or two or three or all of the four?
 
Last edited:
It is very odd this phenomenon you have found. I have been promised the use of an XT but not until the Covid-19 thing is over, understandably. It’s a pity as holding onto one would mean I could try to replicate your findings exactly.


It does exactly the same thing on a Zumo 590 (with 595 'upgrade').

Is it possible to wind back your XT to its earlier map and software? I have never tried doing it, though others have reportedly done so on other devices.


I looked into that, but couldn't see how to do it. I can get into the boot menu, and into the hidden menu to show the .system folder, but cannot see a way of using that to revert to the original software. I stopped trying when I realised that I had installed 2.50 before backing up the entire contents - so I don't have 2.30 files to experiment with. But if it does it on the 595 software …...

Have you tried the same exercise but using more via points, say four to see what happens if you change just one or two or three or all of the four?

No. I wanted to work out why it did it, so kept it simple. Doing it once is bad enough. Using the on screen device, I have to add a Via Point first. If I want a shaping point, it can change it. But if this sort of thing happens, I could end up going up the valley to (say) Briancon, instead of going over Col d'Izoard to the east. (Not that I have tested that particular route).

I tried a few other locations and got similar results. Each time, the new shaping point was put in the vicinity of the original Via Point, but a little way along a main route - forcing the new route to take the main road - the very thing that the shaping point was put in to avoid. It does the same thing in fastest, shorter and off road routing. It does the same thing if the Via Point used was first set up in Favourites.

But - its not an XT issue, as I have tried the same thing on my 595 software. I'll test it on the 590 when I reload the earlier software onto that unit.

I've posted a comment to Garmin. (The closest option I could find on the Garmin site was to report a fault about mapping. No option to report software faults that I could see).

Query - if I subscribe to the site - it would just be for Garmin stuff and trips - since my bike of choice is a Pan European. Would I be able to :

Edit posts
Attach pdfs
Include pictures in the text
Delete my attached files when they became out of date.
Delete my own posts (for when I say something really stupid !)
 
Thanks for the reply. Like you, I am at a loss to explain the XT's moving of a via / shaping point.

Garmin seem to have changed their homepage. Try sending an email to: Garmin.support@garmin.com That is the email address that used to be generated by their on-line 'Contact us with your problem'. It was certainly in use as at 05 February and into March, as the world had a problem with Basecamp on a Mac, following a software update.


Last point.

Site subscription is £12 a year, a sum that is all but insignificant, no matter what you do.

The delete / edit function is available for I think 30 minutes or maybe it's sixty (I forget) to allow the editing deletion of posts. Thereafter you would need one of the moderators’ help.

There is a limit on the size and type of attachments for everyone. The site's owner is generally pretty accommodating if you want him to attach something larger. I used to do that with larger Garmin files. But, nowadays, I just use DropBox or something similar.

The key advantage as I see it is to access the For Sale section and definitely the benefit to be able to PM fellow subscribers, which often helps a lot.
 


Back
Top Bottom