More Insurance Shenanigans / Datatag / SmartWater; change of owner registration.

oddjob

oddjob

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My insurance underwriter has now placed a caveat, namely in the event of a loss claim, I must provide the SmartWater Registration Certificate.

I feel this is yet another bogus insurance scam to mitigate against any claim liability. :mad:

I appreciate for vehicles previously registered with Datatag, upon payment of an annual fee, new vehicle owners can apply for details to be updated.

However, does anyone have any experience with SmartWater, also if they provide a broadly comparable service? :duno

I've endeavoured to communicate with Smartwater via their online "contact us" portal, however no reply is ever forthcoming which clearly doesn't bode well! :augie

Perhaps SmartWater are unable to decipher my enquiry (which detailed the actual bike registration number)? :nenau

My motorcycle was previously registered with SmartWater:
Honda Hornet 900 F5, registration number B~~~ ~~~.
Unfortunately the previous owner misplaced the installation registration certificate and the solution/cylinder number.
Since I am the owner and registered keeper of this motorcycle, what is the application fee to amend your records, together with the provision of another registration certificate?
 
The innocent insurer (or more likely the chimps in a call centre) will simply be seeking - post event - to ascertain that you were not being economic with the truth when you told them at the inception of the policy that your bike has ‘SmartWater’ applied to it and that it was (as at the time of the claim occurring) currently registered on SmartWater’s database. It is not the insurer’s (nor indeed the chimp’s) fault if you cannot then produce the proof or that the previous, no doubt ‘careful’ owner had mislaid it.

If you don’t like your insurer’s pre-condition, seek an alternative insurer / chimp provider. There are loads out there.

For what it’s worth, London’s Metropolitan police endorse the product: https://www.met.police.uk/police-fo...met/campaigns/MetTrace/how-to-use-smartwater/

Do not though ever neglect the pound of butter in the fridge. At least you don’t have to provide evidence of that but to ignore it is tempting fate.
 
Did you tell your insurance co that your bike had smart water as part of its security? If so then not unreasonable that they seek evidence of that as their premium is probably a bit lower than if you hadn’t said so. In the absence of a certificate how do YOU know there is smartwater?

If no certificate forthcoming I suggest you either tell the insurance co quickly, or go somewhere and get smart water added and get a nice new certificate.
 
On a 10 year? plus bike the presence of Smartwater is surely unlikely to be a significant premium factor. So simply tell your insurer that you do not have it (or at least cannot prove it)

There might be a small? additional premium and if you agreed to admin fees when you took out the policy, an admin fee.
 
To the OP ,

for what it's worth Datatag are just as bad ...

You can re-register a bike from one owner to another by filling in a form and sending a cheque to them ..

Seems straightforward... apart from the cheque bit (my bank no longer issues them lol), a fact which DT seem to know of, but fail to tell you

And they will accept card payments - but dont according to the website

I contacted DT who want reams of information, which i dont yet have, including a letter of authorisation from the previous owner confirming the

transfer. I explained it was bought from a dealer, and i dont have the previous owners details.

So now i have to provide a copy of the bill of sale, V5c in my name and wait for DT to contact the previous keeper to see if they will authorise the

transfer of the tag.

Except DVLA arn't processing any V5c changes at present.

So it's going to be a long wait lol
 
It is maybe not that unreasonable that Datatag makes the process of reregistering a bike to a new owner (who lacks the paperwork) a bit of a chore ie ‘reams of information‘. The alternative is to make it a piece of piss, which would only serve to boil the urine of someone who had had their bike stolen. He’d report, “...and the cnuts never even checked! Wankers!”.

As to their payment methods? That is another matter entirely, for which they need pinning to a wall and shooting with pitchforks.
 
Update - the broker (AA Insurance Services) has liaised with the underwriter (Ageas) to remove any restrictive caveat to SmartWater security ever having been applied to the bike. :comfort :beer:

Net effect on my premium cost is absolutely nil. :rolleyes: :blast

:soapbox: :rob
However, the original SmartWater stickers (which are consummate to the age and appearance of a 15 year old bike) will remain firmly affixed in perpetuity upon the pillion footrest hangers, effectively as a talisman to ward off evil nefarious rapscallions AKA low life Scrotes.

Moreover, heaven forbid, if something untoward was to occur to my old Hornet, perhaps I should insist the broker and underwriter detail some alternative and more appropriate caveats, for example:

As divine retribution, the wronged party will be legally permitted to SLOWLY invoke the hudud crime of theft which is referred to in Quranic verse 5:38: As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

Or, perhaps a more traditional western approach; initially the stocks, then administer a jolly good thrashing with the birch, then an appropriate flail or our extremely traditional cat-o'-nine-tails.

I doubt any victim impact statement would invoke a request for high treason protocols, namely for the perpetrator to be SLOWLY hanged, drawn and quartered. :nenau

:reaper
Does the UKgser Court of Restorative Justice broadly concur or would you prefer to give due consideration whilst reciting your autographed copy of Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses? :augie

Right, back to my original post / question regarding your respective experiences with Datatag and SmartWater..... :augie
 
Wapping said:
It is maybe not that unreasonable that Datatag makes the process of reregistering a bike to a new owner (who lacks the paperwork) a bit of a chore ie ‘reams of information‘. The alternative is to make it a piece of piss, which would only serve to boil the urine of someone who had had their bike stolen. He’d report, “...and the cnuts never even checked! Wankers!”.

As to their payment methods? That is another matter entirely, for which they need pinning to a wall and shooting with pitchforks.
Click to expand...

Dont mind the paperwork re transfer, thats fair enough, (they could be a bit clearer on their transfer page ;) ) But cheques, I'll let you do your stuff :thumb
 
Sorry, but if you told them it was Smartwater protected, then you should expect to prove that in the event of a claim. Since you couldn't provide a certificate you should not have said it was protected. No sympathy from here im afraid.
 
Delboy777 said:
Sorry, but if you told them it was Smartwater protected, then you should expect to prove that in the event of a claim. Since you couldn't provide a certificate you should not have said it was protected. No sympathy from here I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

Thank you so very much for your candour! :eek:

FYI:
a) I've owned this Hornet since Oct' 2013;
b) Historically, no broker nor underwriter has ever stipulated in their T&C's the aforementioned SmartWater certificate must be produced in the event of a loss;
c) The NEW caveat re' the certificate was rather cunningly invoked for a NEW multi-bike policy which commences on 16.05.2020
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/530921-Multi-bike-Insurance-online-quotes;
d) Since retrospective production the SmartWater certificate is evidently problematical, upon my request, all references were removed by the broker and underwriter;
e) This amendment for the NEW policy resulted in absolutely no change whatsoever to the net premium cost, which I find quite ironic; :augie
f) Perhaps some folk aren't "smart" enough to keep all their receipts and certificates for the myriad of soft and hard security devices;
g) The often quoted phrase "In good faith" runs both ways. However, in order to mitigate against claims liability, I wonder how many times the insurance industry have "tried it on" and refused claims because folk can't provide their original proof of purchase receipts (for their vehicle / hard and soft security / accessories), or the qualify of their photographic and video evidence wasn't satisfactory, or their ground anchors, disk locks, chains weren't sufficiently damaged in order to clearly demonstrate they were effectively utilised on the fateful date in question. :nenau

Oh, BTW, I also share with you one of my favourite quotes: "Don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience". :dabone :D
 
Ladies & Gentlemen Behold: Don't waste your time elucidating to Dell the Bell end!

Delboy777 said:
yes Dell the bell end, you're clearly an idiot. :p

:agree

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Ladies & Gentlemen Behold: Don't waste your time elucidating to Dell the Bell end! :dabone
 
From: Suzanne Turner-Scheijen [mailto:suzanneturner@smartwater.com]
Sent: 12 May 2020 09:52
To: smartwater@~~~~~~~~.org.uk
Subject: FW: [EXTERNAL] Offline message sent by ~~~ ~~~~~

Dear ~~~,

Many thanks for contacting us and apologies for the belated reply.

I confirm that the motorbike is indeed registered with us and it is possible to transfer the registration to you as new owner.
This would include the supply of a new vehicle security pack to include forensic liquid and deterrent labels so you can mark the bike and replace the deterrent labels that are on there.
The bike was marked quite a while ago and as we warrant our products for 5 years, it should be remarked and the look of our labels has been updated as well.

The cost for transferring the registration to you is £110 to include the new vehicle security pack and 5 year registration on our database.

If you wish to proceed with the transfer, please let me know as I will need to send you a form to complete and sign.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have further questions.

Kind regards,
Suzanne Turner-Scheijen
Business Support Executive
 
oddjob said:
From: Suzanne Turner-Scheijen [mailto:suzanneturner@smartwater.com]

Dear ~~~,


Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have further questions.

Kind regards,
Suzanne Turner-Scheijen
Business Support Executive
Click to expand...

You can now be friends with her on LinkedIn....

d21f9c4955d2f6087085b64fd91d274c.jpg


How cool is that?
 
My Brother in law never used to declare that his house had a burglar alarm installed.

He discovered it made no difference to his premium, but sure as hell would have made a difference if he had declared it and got burgled during a period he had forgotten to arm it.
 
Totally agree Blackal, on bike insurance I never confirm a disk lock will be used, it often is, but maybe not always. (on my bike, not an insurer requirement) Oh, and as the OP has now learnt, don't say you have something, if you can't prove it, mine is Datatagged, but not transferred to me, so not declared to insurers.
 
Ajay said:
Totally agree Blackal, on bike insurance I never confirm a disk lock will be used, it often is, but maybe not always. (on my bike, not an insurer requirement) Oh, and as the OP has now learnt, don't say you have something, if you can't prove it, mine is Datatagged, but not transferred to me, so not declared to insurers.
Click to expand...

Which is all fine and dandy and all in line with the rules as set out in the Bikers’ Charter (section 156 B, ‘Don’t tell the cnuts nuffin’) until the insurer imposes a pre-Condition that the bike be secured with say, a disc lock and evidence that one exists, before cover is incepted. Then the proposer has several choices:

1. They can lie, sending the insurer their mate’s receipt or some such as ‘proof’ that the lock exists

2. They can buy insurance from someone else

3. They can comply

4. They can ask that the Condition be removed

5. They can lie when the loss occurs

6. They can argue with the insurer that the non-attachment of the disc lock did not materially affect the cause of the theft

Life’s great. So many choices and often for less than the price of a pint of beer a day.
 
Nothing to do with a "Bikers Charter" (whatever that is) More to do with managing the insurance policy & not inviting insurers to impose conditions that they otherwise would not apply.
 
Ajay said:
Nothing to do with a "Bikers Charter" (whatever that is) More to do with managing the insurance policy & not inviting insurers to impose conditions that they otherwise would not apply.
Click to expand...

I quite agree with you.

As I said, right up until the moment an insurer demands that you secure the bike with a disc lock, or they will not insure you. For example, my motorcar insurer demands that I have a tracker fitted. That is not me telling them that I don’t have one fitted (or that I do but I don’t tell them) it is them ordering me to have one.
 
Blackal said:
My Brother in law never used to declare that his house had a burglar alarm installed.

He discovered it made no difference to his premium
Click to expand...


Exactly the same here.
When parked in the garage, my bikes are chained, pretty hefty chains I'd say, through the frame to ground anchors (I gave a lot of money to Pragamasis :lol: ) + they both have disc locks at the front.

I never leave the GS unlocked even for 5 minutes when parked around.


Nothing of this is declared on my policy as:
– the difference on the premium is negligible
– I don't have to prove the bikes where locked in case the worse happen
– I'm still covered if not locked by any chance
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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