Ews

Santa-2512 · May 16, 2020

glenn.1 said:
Nice one ... found it... there’s about 25 wiring diagrams in my book 04-09.., it’s on 7-32 ... I’ll check tomorrow...

Are you looking at the right one ?

To get to the ecu, your going to have to take the tank off.

Look where the loom goes upto the headstock / RA. There are several big cable ties where the the loom leaves the upward part of the frame are and goes forward to the instrument cluster

if the cable tie is tight

glenn.1 · May 17, 2020

Quick update.... stripped bike of panels and removed tank... stripped back binding on the 4 wires from the RA ... found the green and brown wire broken... after an hour of testing and scratching mi head... I realised the LOWER module is the ecu not the upper one...did continuity test on all the wires After repairing green wire all good ... put everything back together and switched on.... ferking EWS Again.... tried new RA .. same ... I carnt help thinking the ECU needs resetting somehow ... not sure what to do now...

abraxas · May 17, 2020

That is odd. You found the problem and rectified it and it is still not right.

Well, both Santa and I agree, there is nothing to reset in the ECU when it comes to EWS, mate. As I explained earlier, if the ECU is functioning, it may have a fault code in the memory, but the fault code is historic and has nothing to do with the current operation. If the EWS shows on the display, the fault is present now, regardless of any historic faults.
I would:

1) Double check that you haven't knocked out the "sleeve"- connector on the ECU plug. (Take the back of it, slide the block out and check the relevant pins.)

2) Check other wires again. Maybe you have one that is broken inside the sheathing. Connect the probes to one pair of ends and move the bars, shoogle the cables and see if there is any change.

3) Find someone with a GS911 or a laptop with Rheingold installed and ODB connector to check your ECU is working.

Santa will be along soon to tell you it is the wiring.

And he is probably right!

glenn.1 · May 17, 2020

Would the 911 tell if it’s the ra or a broken wire... if so which wire... I think my next port of call is a bike shop to get some diagnostics

abraxas · May 17, 2020

glenn.1 said:
Would the 911 tell if it’s the ra or a broken wire... if so which wire... I think my next port of call is a bike shop to get some diagnostics

In short: I doubt it. I do think it would come back with something along the lines of "no communication with key" if RA is broken or a wire is not connected. It will also tell you if the ECU is working, if your battery is ok and and what the actual fault code is. For example, you could simply be getting interference of sorts and your system is working but just can't read the code from the key. [You have tried both keys, away from each other and other car/bike keys, right? ]

Anyways, have a look here I never used the GS911 myself but I did use Rheingold and got loads of good info from it.

You have to understand that the EWS is an immobiliser. An anti-theft device. BMW does not see it as a great idea to give out very specific information about what didn't work as it can be aiding bike thieving scrotes.

abraxas · May 17, 2020

Also, pay attention to the bit about the lights, this is why I asked you about the sequence at ignition. On 800GS all lights come on on the dash, the clocks do their wee dance and go full sweep, the lights then go off and the low beam goes off. This is important as you can see at that link. If the battery has been disconnected or the ECU is goosed, you don't get the correct sequence...

glenn.1 · May 17, 2020

I’m just wondering... all this started while the engine was cranking... it didn’t start ... EE’s came on after a second or so of cranking... the dipped beam is on but there is no neutral light or gear indicator... what if the bike thinks the battery has been disconnected each time I turn the key because of say a bad earth... I’ve tried a different battery so can assume that’s good ... I’ll try a jump lead from battery negative to engine casing tomorrow so if that does owt... I’ve seen on a thread a bad battery can cause this... thought I’d discounted that ... or am I grasping at straws...

Santa-2512 · May 17, 2020

And breathe

Ok

start at the front of the bike

Check the plug going into the ring antenna is plugged in fully,

Check the pins in the plug are all the same height, (one hasn't backed out)

Now whether you like this or not, its the only way to do it!

From the plug in the Ring Antenna (RA)

strip the outer cable sheath off so you have exposed all the wires check them for breaks or exposed wires

Work back down the sheath of cables until you get to a cable tie.

Cut the cable tie to release the sheath of cable, and strip back to about 4 inches beyond the cable tie

Check the wiring - Keep going until you find the break or reach the ECU its the only way

Look at the picture below

This was one of two broken RA wires buried in its own sheath inside another bundle of wires !

It was broken fully in one place and near to breaking in another in 2 places!

it was nowhere near the RA, this was near/ behind the LH front suspension leg - IE no where near the RA!

The problem stems from the loom being cabled tied to tightly to the frame, as the bars turn, it puts stress on the loom at or around the

points it's cable tied.

Eventually it will fail, and EWS is displayed on the Kombi (instrument cluster)

Unfortunately until you strip & check all the wiring in the RA loom , your never going to know

Any fault codes stored in the ECU for RA are historic, it only stores the code, clearing it will make no difference

If you stuck it on a a GS 911, it will give one of two messages

RA xxxxxx fault or RA xxxxxx fault - not present now neither will stop the bike from starting

Hate to say again,

its a fiddly shitty job, but the only way to do it properly

abraxas · May 17, 2020

glenn.1 said:
I’m just wondering... all this started while the engine was cranking... it didn’t start ... EE’s came on after a second or so of cranking... the dipped beam is on but there is no neutral light or gear indicator... what if the bike thinks the battery has been disconnected each time I turn the key because of say a bad earth... I’ve tried a different battery so can assume that’s good ... I’ll try a jump lead from battery negative to engine casing tomorrow so if that does owt... I’ve seen on a thread a bad battery can cause this... thought I’d discounted that ... or am I grasping at straws...

Don't want to worry you but that red highlighted bit is not so good. It can mean that the BMSK(P) [the ECU] is not booting up properly. It could still be faulty wiring, though... Disconnect the battery and the ECU connector (if you can get to it easily) this evening, put it on charge overnight if you have a charger. Connect tomorrow and double-up on negative to ground, as you said. Make sure you turn ignition on once, wait for the sequence to finish, power down again and wait 10 sec... then on again. If that doesn't work, you'll need to carefully inspect that ECU plug at a minimum. Start looking into that GS911 or diagnostic reader.

Santa-2512 · May 17, 2020

abraxas said:
Also, pay attention to the bit about the lights, this is why I asked you about the sequence at ignition. On 800GS all lights come on on the dash, the clocks do their wee dance and go full sweep, the lights then go off and the low beam goes off. This is important as you can see at that link. If the battery has been disconnected or the ECU is goosed, you don't get the correct sequence...

Isnt it a hexhead, they dont do the dial sweep just lights on first and then off

if the bike is in gear, it will afaik still show EWS

abraxas · May 18, 2020

Santa-2512 said:
Isnt it a hexhead, they dont do the dial sweep just lights on first and then off

if the bike is in gear, it will afaik still show EWS

Yes, it is mate. I was just giving an example of what the start procedure looks like on an 800 for OP to use the hexhead analogue. I don't have a hexhead. But the EWS setup is more or less the same on both bikes. And so is the BMSK(P) ECU. The lack of gear position and neutral is somewhat worrysome. Also if the low beam doesn't go of (if it usually does like on the 800). These are usually telltale signs that the ECU is not booting properly. It is not talking to ZFE module and other peripherals.

It will turn out to be another broken wire in the end...

glenn.1 · May 18, 2020

What time can you all get here...lol

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Santa-2512 · May 18, 2020

glenn.1 said:
What time can you all get here...lol

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Hi Glen,

We understand your frustration, its not a good feeling to have an warning on your kombi, and the bike wont start

And nothing you seem to have done is working ..

the problem can be broken down into percentages

99.5% will be a broken wire, it wll be somewhere in the loom, it may not be visible , but there will be no continuity on one or more wires

It will be a pain in the arse to find, but once found and fixed, will make you feel a whole lot better.

the other 0.5% will be a dead ecu , rare , but does happen , it unfortunatly requires a new ecu i think its about £600 odd with fitting and coding

what you dont want to do though it take it to a dealer or indie, have them order a new ecu, fit it and find it still dosent work .

By doing the wiring strip & check, and i wholeheartedly agree its time consuming, fiddly, awkward, and mentally numbing.

Will A) verify the wiring is correct, and b) if it fixes it, will make you feel a load happier.

You say you found a broken wire which you fixed, with no difference.

have you tried the replacement RA with your repaired wire, you may have had a duff RA & broken wire .

Once you have explored all avenues, and eliminated the obvious, then you can move toward looking at the more expensive stuff

abraxas · May 18, 2020

What he said ^ .

Well... except for the price of ECU and coding. I think you'd be unpleasantly surprised there; according to a report by another member from here. But let's not get into that until you've eliminated all other possibilities.
Get thy multi-meter out and get used to that lovely beep of continuity...

glenn.1 · May 18, 2020

What I’m thinking, which may make this easier than searching in the tight loom for breaks ... is to cut off the plug to the RA .. then a couple of inches from the plug that goes into the ECU .. cut the sheathing and cut all four wires and make a new set of wires soldered onto the RA plug I cut off earlier.. thus completely bypassing the broken wire ... still a ball ache...

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Headtester · May 18, 2020

Must be frustrating having the fault to deal with but I'm with Santa's solution for tracking it down methodically.

abraxas · May 18, 2020

Yea, I wouldn't do that yet. Cutting things off is not really a good idea at this stage. If you find corresponding pins and you get continuity down that bit of wire, what are you going to achieve? If there is connectivity, the signal is going down the wire. Check that there is no continuity between the different RA wires too. That is electronics... either there is current or there is not.
Take a bit of paper, write down the pins you are testing, then write down the results of your connectivity test. Move the loom about with each test to check you are getting solid continuity. Particularly pay attention to checking the wire you repaired. You already know that was a problem; maybe the repair was not good, or there is another break.

In short: if continuity is there and solid - the cabling between RA and ECU is not your problem. At least eliminate that part.

Then check power and earth to the ECU. If you have a pin-out diagram, they are the larger connectors, quite easy to find.

Then find a way to do diagnostics. You need to make sure your ECU is still alive and talking.

At least that's what I'd do... other opinions may be available.

Santa-2512 · May 18, 2020

glenn.1 said:
What I’m thinking, which may make this easier than searching in the tight loom for breaks ... is to cut off the plug to the RA .. then a couple of inches from the plug that goes into the ECU .. cut the sheathing and cut all four wires and make a new set of wires soldered onto the RA plug I cut off earlier.. thus completely bypassing the broken wire ... still a ball ache...

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It will end in tears,

If only it was as easy as you suggest .

If you look at the circuit diagram, (you did look at the circuit diagram didn't you

) you will see its not just four wires to the RA from the ZFE

Its two wires & a twisted pair. The twisted pair is there for a reason , so following your logic, you now need to make a twisted pair and a non twisted pair,

wrap it, feed it up to the RA cable tying it in such a way it has enough room to work and wont get snagged or strained.

We have given you all the answers to your problem in the earlier posts ..

If you have a broken wire, it has broken for a reason, (usually an over tight cable tie), if you dont find it and rectify it, other wires will break, potentially giving you other

symptoms as well.

I'm really struggling to understand what you find so difficult to do, to investigate and potentially resolve your problem.

I can only say this for the last time,

strip the outer sheath from the loom working back from the RA to the ZFE.

If you have a broken wire, fix it. If all the wires are intact, continuity check them . any that have no continuity, you either need to fix or replace

See where the break is, and see what cable ties are nearest, they will be the ones that don't need pulling too tight when your replace them.

If you find no breaks and have continuity, your problem lies else where.

Mistacat · May 19, 2020

I agree it is a lot quicker to do the continuity test on the 4 wires.
Rather than using a multi meter for continuity testing on wiring looms I prefer to use an old sealed beam unit or headlight bulb ( around 60w) this will put a 5 amp load on the cable showing up bad connections and semi-broken wires, it also catches the eye when wiggling the loom.
Just make sure the cable that you are testing is unplugged both ends.
Don`t leave it connected to the ecu etc and back pin the connectors, Just test the cables.

Santa-2512 · May 19, 2020

Mistacat said:
I agree it is a lot quicker to do the continuity test on the 4 wires.
Rather than using a multi meter for continuity testing on wiring looms I prefer to use an old sealed beam unit or headlight bulb ( around 60w) this will put a 5 amp load on the cable showing up bad connections and semi-broken wires, it also catches the eye when wiggling the loom.
Just make sure the cable that you are testing is unplugged both ends.
Don`t leave it connected to the ecu etc and back pin the connectors, Just test the cables.

Yes it may be,

but if he has one or more broken wires, wouldn't you want to investigate why? and then fix the why?

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