strange starting issue.

gazza12adv

gazza12adv

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The last couple of weeks I've had a problem starting my 06 GSA.
Mostly in the morning when cold. It will turn over and give a slight splutter then die.
After a few attempts it will fire a little and then most of the time it will then fire up.
It's almost as if it not enriching the mixture for the cold start, if you see what I mean.
The first time it happened I couldn't get it to start even after a few attempts. So gave up and Rode a TL for the rest of the week and then looked at in on the Saturday. .
After a few checks.
Had a spark.
I put another 5 litres in the fuel tank as well. Just in case.
Both injectors were spraying though I've no way to really tell how much. Still wouldn't fire.
I sprayed some brake cleaner into the air intake whilst cranking and it fired up for the first time in a week.
Once started it will start with no problems at all.
Every night when leaving work when left out in the sunshine it started without a problem for all of last week. It just struggled in the morning.
The first time after I put in the 5 litres I filled it up at the fuel station and could only fit 20 litres in the tank so it wasn't low on fuel.
Once started it runs perfectly. Pulls like it should do and no hesitation or any stalling. .
4 new plugs last year. New BMW main coilsticks the year before when one packed up. (It had no problem starting when the coilstick failed)
I don't know what else to do.

Any ideas from anyone as to what could be the problem. Thanks in advance.
 
Could it be a weak battery, not cranking enough when engine cold?
 
Try turning the ignition on and off four times before you try to start it as the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition on.
If the valve in the pump is leaking it will let the fuel run back into the tank overnight so may take a while to get the pressure up..
The system does not monitor fuel pressure so the pump runs for a couple of seconds when the ignition is switched on then runs again as the starter is engaged.
So check that the pump also runs when the starter is engaged.
The other thing to check is that the IAT ( inlet air temperature) sensor mounted on top of the air box is giving the correct values.
 
FERRET said:
Could it be a weak battery, not cranking enough when engine cold?
Click to expand...
Battery is good. Turns over well and multiple times trying to start. I have charged it up again too even though it never went flat.
Mistacat said:
Try turning the ignition on and off four times before you try to start it as the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition on.
If the valve in the pump is leaking it will let the fuel run back into the tank overnight so may take a while to get the pressure up..
The system does not monitor fuel pressure so the pump runs for a couple of seconds when the ignition is switched on then runs again as the starter is engaged.
So check that the pump also runs when the starter is engaged.
The other thing to check is that the IAT ( inlet air temperature) sensor mounted on top of the air box is giving the correct values.
Click to expand...
I had tried the turning the key on a few times on a few different occasions.
It didn't seemt to make any difference. Though I am thinking it's fuel related in some way as it fired up when I sprayed the brake cleaner Into the air filter inlet.
I'm not sure how to check the iat sensor tbh.
This does seem to have happened all of a sudden as it's never had a problem starting in the 107,000 new of its life before so I'm thinking something has failed.
Keep the ideas coming please.
 
Someone may be able to give you an impedance value at a given low temperature for the IAT sensor.
Easiest way is real time values with a GS-911 or adaptor cable and an ELM327 or OBDLink type of device with Motoscan ,Torque or any of the other apps that will give you real time values.
If you have access to any of these the injector pulse width when cold will give you a clue.
 
I agree with the IAT sensor , if its wrong then the fuelling will be well out. I just measured mine for you as my tank is off and at abmient 18 degrees weather, its reading 4.99K ohm.

Mark
 
Ok thanks guys.
I have an independent service guy near me, I may get it to him as he has the diagnostic stuff needed. Easiest way for me now I think.
 
Just had a thought ,
The week before this started happening I removed my rear wilbers to get it serviced etc. I used my cordless impact gun to remove the bolts. I wonder if the vibration has shaken something loose. Need to start taking her apart to check I suppose. Shock should be back this week so it'll give me an excuse to take a few more bits off.
 
Suggest the Idle Stepper Motors may be dirty/sticking hence when spraying brake cleaner into intake this helped?

Note:

Disconnect elect conn to stepper motor, unscrew single torx bolt, remove stepper motor, wipe clean plunger/collar & seat, then spray with ACF50 or WD40 etc. Refit, turn on ignition allowing stepper to automatically calibrate to ecu, then attempt to start.

Hope this proves useful?
 
RobMC said:
Suggest the Idle Stepper Motors may be dirty/sticking hence when spraying brake cleaner into intake this helped?

Note:

Disconnect elect conn to stepper motor, unscrew single torx bolt, remove stepper motor, wipe clean plunger/collar & seat, then spray with ACF50 or WD40 etc. Refit, turn on ignition allowing stepper to automatically calibrate to ecu, then attempt to start.

Hope this proves useful?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. Will look into it. Got a diagnostic tool arriving tomorrow so can check a few things,
It's still doing it so I've not ridden the GSA for a good few weeks. Need to get it sorted soon just incase the trip to Iceland this year actually goes ahead.
Will have a play around this weekend.
 
Bought an obdlink scanner, downloaded the basic motoscan app.
Wouldn't start again today. Fired up with the brake cleaner trick again but wouldnt keep running this time unlike before when once started it ran fine.
Connected the scanner and it's showing fuel pump problem. So I'm thinking fuel pump controller of the pump itself.
Will invstigate more when I get a chance.
 
Fuel pump and controller replaced this week. Bike is now starting and running as normal again. Fuel pump had eventually seized and shorted out the controller part. Explains why I could no longer get it to start at all.
Mechanic says it threw up a shutdown or something in the ECU or whatever it is a couple of times before it all started working properly again. It's now got the later updated controller thingy and a genuine pump fitted so should last a few more years. .
Can't complain as I got 107.000 miles out of the previous ones.
 
Which obdlink scanner did you buy as I am thinking about getting one to go with the motoscan app

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
 
waggy said:
Which obdlink scanner did you buy as I am thinking about getting one to go with the motoscan app

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I bought this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132992160179
I don't know the difference between this and the MX version. Maybe someone else does. It worked ok though, a mate has one as well which works well on his XR thou.
 
The MX works with newer Ford and GM cars, So if you own one of these brands it is worth spending the extra few £`s.
 
Mistacat said:
The MX works with newer Ford and GM cars, So if you own one of these brands it is worth spending the extra few £`s.
Click to expand...

any idea if the MX work on the bikes, we had an early LX one and it won't code the TPMS. But there have been firmware updates - you need v4.3
the adverts for this make of adaptor is so ambiguous as to what they work with I have no clue if worth having - reams of drivel but no real clarity, they do another one as well the MX+ it doesn't even list which protocols it supports



https://www.obdlink.com/mxp/

interesting the MX does
Single-Wire CAN (SW-CAN)
Medium-Speed CAN (MS-CAN)
which is your point about other ford stuff.... why haven't the idiots said what the MX+ does ?????
and NO mention anywhere of the complex BMW string length most adaptors don't support which you need to code the RDC
 
Yes I have an OBDlink MX+ as the wife has a Ford .
Yes it does work regarding coding the RDC.
I have also used it to code the fuel strip to fuel float after changing the wiring.
There is a web page listing what all the different models cover that you have put a link to, click the compare tab..
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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