R1250GS Clutch Failure

I've just put a clutch in a car that's been slipping for the best part of a year, just can't use much throttle......
 
I would expect they have been fitted incorrectly

The pushrods are meant to be Checked by the fitter generally. They are just loosely fitted in a random position on all the aftermarket levers I’ve had.
 
Before you get on your legal high horse, it depends who fitted the levers

The OP

The BMW Dealer

Motea dealer in UK

A.N. Other

Read this....



I would expect they have been fitted incorrectly
Has the dealer said that the lever was fitted incorrectly ?
No

Have they said that the wear relates to the lever?
Yes

Is it possible there is a faulty batch of levers ?
Yes.

It will all come down to what the dealer states, and the balance of probabilities. As the OP states he's fitted similar on previous bikes, unless you know differently, I'm accepting he fitted them correctly.



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In normal wear yes but once the clutch slips it gets very hot and once the friction material exceeds normal operating temps it can destroy itself pretty quickly. I had a company car that got stuck in 3rd ( gear linkage came off) about 40 miles from base. Just the slipping from 10 or so junction pull aways to get home damaged the Friction plate to the point of replacement.. The mechanic showed me the clutch and it had got hot and shredded most of the friction material.
On a wet clutch ?

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On a wet clutch ?

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No dry on a car obviously, it was more to make the point about exceeding friction material temps and the effect on wear.

A look at the lever suppliers site shows that the levers are supplied without push rods so the op must have removed and refitted his original ones to the new levers. So he should know if he adjusted the push rod for free play. The dealer may not be aware of this so will Possibly blame the lever in general.
 
I fitted the levers, as I have on all my other bikes. The dealer did not say that they were fitted incorrectly. That said, I'm not a technician and I didn't see anything about push rod adjustments on the instructions. I did with this bike what I have done with all the others, popped the OEM's off, and popped the new ones on.
 
No dry on a car obviously, it was more to make the point about exceeding friction material temps and the effect on wear.

A look at the lever suppliers site shows that the levers are supplied without push rods so the op must have removed and refitted his original ones to the new levers. So he should know if he adjusted the push rod for free play. The dealer may not be aware of this so will Possibly blame the lever in general.
His bike has a wet clutch, so it is unlikely to be overheating.

Whilst freeplay at the pushrod is specified, an hydraulic clutch, especially with such a low mileage won't have fluid contamination, nor as it self adjusts be causing the issue, unless of course the lever is failing to fully return and therefore maintaining a constant pressure.

However, with under 250 miles it seems unusual, it isn't as if the 1250 has a marginal clutch like the K12/13.

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I fitted the levers, as I have on all my other bikes. The dealer did not say that they were fitted incorrectly. That said, I'm not a technician and I didn't see anything about push rod adjustments on the instructions. I did with this bike what I have done with all the others, popped the OEM's off, and popped the new ones on.
Also, if the pushrod freeplay was of "such" importance Tuv would require it to be referenced in any instructions.

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I can only see 2 possibles. The pushrod adjustment or the lever pivot being tight enough to prevent full lever movement.

Brembo say there should be enough pushrod free play to allow approx 10mm of slack at the lever tip. I’m just fitting new levers and m/c to my Aprilia (Brembo) and the pushrod has about 10mm of adjustment on it to allow correct fitment.

Might be worth the op visiting the dealer and check the free play to pre empt what I suspect the dealer is going to say if it becomes a dispute.
 
From the instructions for my new m/c ( Brembo )

The master cylinder piston is adjusted at the factory so that, in its fully retracted state/starting position, the fluid return port to the reservoir is completely uncovered.

Essentially, until the piston moves far enough to cover the port, fluid can flow from the cylinder to the reservoir and thus the fluid is not pressurized sufficiently to cause the lever to generate the forces required for clutch release.

Properly adjusted, there should be a 5-10% dead-band of the full lever movement before there is pull resistance felt at the lever. This freeplay is necessary to prevent covering the port as the piston seal expands normally over time, and to avoid placing the piston seal rest location (where corrosion occurs) right at the return port orifice.

Once adjusted, the manufacturer places a potting compound over the screw adjuster to prevent accidental or incorrect adjustment.

If the potting compound is removed and the piston is incorrectly adjusted such that the return port is completely or partially blocked when the lever is released, the system will remain partially pressurized for a time, and the clutch engagement will be incomplete, causing slippage and premature wear. Similarly, the same mis-adjustment of the brake master cylinder leads to brake lock-up when the brake fluid heats up.
 
I just asked the dealer if installation was the issue - they said they had to sit on the fence o that one as they're not permitted to advise on third party products.
Bollocks, what a get out. They are supposed to be professional mechanics/technicians. They are quite happy to state that it isn't down to anything to do with BMW bits.

They can state what they found (fact) and the implications (professional opinion).

They are saying A caused B, you are asking what fault is there with A then?

It can be either incorrectly fitted, or faulty lever. Unless there is a third option that I'm missing.

If, I was paying the bill to have my bike fixed I'd would want it fully documented as to the reason/cause for failure, even more so that they are stating that it relates to a 3rd party failure.

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I went back to them and just asked if pushrod adjustment meant anything to them and the reply I got was this:

"The push rod adjustment is pre-set from the factory, and should not be played with - we don't even have a repair measure for doing so."

That suggests to me - and of clourse I would say this, wouldn't I - there is no push rod adjustment for the installer to make on this bike.
 
I just asked the dealer if installation was the issue - they said they had to sit on the fence o that one as they're not permitted to advise on third party products.

Go and look at your bike yourself straight away and ask them to examine any freeplay and show it to you, don't tell them you are coming
 
That could be tricky - I've arranged to drive the OEM levers the 80 miles over there tomorrow for them to re-fit on the bike, with the objective of leaving the hire car BMW emergency services provided and riding the bike back.
 
Before you get on your legal high horse, it depends who fitted the levers

The OP

The BMW Dealer

Motea dealer in UK

A.N. Other

Read this....



I would expect they have been fitted incorrectly

QS fitted too??

Hang on a cotton pickin moment

The QS ( IIRC) has a micro switch thing in the clutch lever assembly so if the clutch lever were preventing the clutch from fully disengaging the QS would not work either plus of course its a Hydraulic clutch isnt it

Or at least thats how it seems to me
 
Hang on a cotton pickin moment

The QS ( IIRC) has a micro switch thing in the clutch lever assembly so if the clutch lever were preventing the clutch from fully disengaging the QS would not work either plus of course its a Hydraulic clutch isnt it

Or at least thats how it seems to me
Correct.

I never thought about the qs, if it "sees" the clutch operating then it doesn't qs.

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I have encountered similar situations to this many, many times over my working life and every single one ultimately boils down to one thing.

Did person 'A' do something that is likely to have caused the failure/problem on machine 'B' which would have continued working if that action by person 'A' had not taken place ?

If the answer is yes, you're out of luck I’m sorry to say.

I do feel sorry for you though, a hard lesson learned.
 
So they told you that the lever was at fault but they can't tell you that the lever was at fault.

Something isn't adding up.
 
I have encountered similar situations to this many, many times over my working life and every single one ultimately boils down to one thing.

Did person 'A' do something that is likely to have caused the failure/problem on machine 'B' which would have continued working if that action by person 'A' had not taken place ?

If the answer is yes, you're out of luck I’m sorry to say.

I do feel sorry for you though, a hard lesson learned.

This ^^^^^^
A cautionary tale when bolting all manner of shite to your expensive WC
Gives BMW an easy option to decline a warranty claim
Hope Delboy is listening
 


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