Garmin's protocols for Via Points, Waypoints, Shaping Pints and Points of Interest

Wapping

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Following some good advice on these pages from jfheath, I now try my best to adopt Garnin's preferred method as to the naming of points in a route *:

i. Shaping points: Unannounced points on a route, displayed as little blue dots on the device's screen. Used to shape a route during its creation in BaseCamp / Mapsource.

ii. Viapoints: Announced points on a route, displayed as little orange flags on the device's screen. These can be given bespoke names and / or allocated other specific properties. For instance, stop over times and dates.

iii. Waypoints: An announced location, stored in BaseCamp or on the device itself. Examples would be, favourites or points of interest. These will be displayed on a Garnin device as a heart, unless they have been given bespoke symbols. Again, like via points, they can be given additional specific properties.

All three can be used to shape a route during its creation. Of the three, the humble unannounced shaping point is the most basic, simply as it serves no other purpose other than to shape a route, It cannot carry with it any other additional bespoke qualities, unless it is converted into an announced waypoint. A shaping point can be converted into a viapoint (and visa-versa) in BaseCamp or within the latest Garmin gps devices themselves.



* To add a little bit of confusion, Garmin themselves sometimes change their own preferred method, But, the above is a pretty good guide.
 
Richard

I am a little confused about some of your advice in posts #17 and #25, and in particular:
"Place an announced viapoint (not a shaping point) at say somewhere between a quarter and five miles from your start point, on a road you know you want to use.
Complete the rest of the route with shaping points only, unless that is there is some other point(s) you MUST pass through between the start and end points."

You talk about

Unannounced and announced 'Shaping points'
'Announced Viapoints ( not shaping points'
and 'Waypoints'

I am not sure I understand the niceties Shaping points (both unannounced and amounced) and Announced Viapoints.

Is an announced Shaping point not an announced Via point?

And is an Announced not the same as a Wapping?

I know how to convert a Waypoint into an unannouced Shaping point (Ctrl-click on my Mac). But I do NOT see an option to have such a Shaping Point anything but unannounced. So how do you 'announce' it?

But how do you create your Via Points? If Ctrl-click on a Waypoint or shaping point I notice there is an option "Edit Via Point". Do you use this? Clicking on this option (having selected either a Shaping Point or a Waypoint) only gives an option to add date and time info

I fear I am getting the wrong end of the stick!
 
Hi Paul,

Shaping points, are always unannounced. They simply pin a route that has been pulled to pass down a certain road and / or to pin the route to a specific point on the map.

Viapoints, are always announced. They can also be given specific qualities of their own. For example bespoke names and stop over times / dates.

Waypoints, are always announced. They are what are most commonly called, ‘favourites’ or ‘points of interest’. Again they can be given specific qualities of their own.

The suggestion about placing a viapoint (not as shaping point) say half a mile away from your start point goes as follows. On the latest Garmin devices, on launching a route, the owner is presented with a choice of where to navigate to. If the route has only a start and finish, just two choices will be shown. If the route has say two, three or four intermediate viapoints, they too will be shown, giving a potential total of six (four plus the start and finish). This confuses a lot of people, particularly if they are not standing at the route’s start point, when they select their choice. If they are some way off the route and select say, end, then the device will take them there by a route it alone decides, predetermined by the device’s preference settings.

Putting in a viapoint say half a mile from the start point, means it will show up as second in the list of choices as to where to navigate to, the first choice being the start point. No matter where they start from the device will take them to the viapoint and the pre-planned route will run normally from there, right to the end.

This comes in useful if bods are unsure where they will start their ride from. Take an extreme example: Imagine someone stopping in Paris, but when he created his route he had no idea where he would be staying, but he needs to hit the middle of ParIs so he creates that as his destination. Somewhere around there he finds a hotel.

But he knows, no matter what, the next morning he needs to be on the D123 heading south. If he creates a route in advance he could just make his start point the middle of Paris, with the first viapoint on the D123 and then onwards to Lyon, or wherever he wanted to go. No matter where he is in Paris, his device will route him to that very spot on the D123 and from there onto to his pre-planed route to Lyon.

Of course he could just as easily start his pre-planned second day route from the D123 and simply chose to navigate to start, as that would achieve the same thing. So the placing of the first viapoint is mostly useful if you know where you’ll be staying the night before and which road you’ll be taking on departure. This comes in handy when you have a gaggle of wanderers following you, all saying “Which one do I select, mate?”. I simply say, “The one labelled D123”. This means I am am as sure as In an be, that no matter what overtakes the happy band, they will all get at least as far as the D123, where, hopefully, the pre-planned route will just run as normal thereafter. It will save the inevitable “My device keeps telling me to join the motorway, mate!”. “Yes, that is because you selected end, as your destination”. Happy days!
 
Richard

I understand the practice of putting a Waypoint/Viapoint a short distance from the actual start point of a route. I have been doing that for some time so that I do not have the satnav having me going in circles to get me to a start point if I am sat only a short distance up the road from where it wants me to start the route.

And I believe I understand Shaping Points which, as you say, are unannounced and not seen by the software as critical to visit.

It is Via Points and Waypoints that I am struggling with, as they seem to serve the same purpose. Plus, I don't see the process for adding/creating a Via Point.

If I ctrl-click on a location on the map, I get an option to "Create a Waypoint", which can be named and included in a route.

If I have a route selected, and the Route Info box open, I can go to a drop-down menu to show either "Via Points" or "Directions" or "Info".
- perhaps this is where my confusion starts as this is the first time I see any mention of "Via Points" in BC. I assumed that "Via Points" was just a generic name for either Waypoints or Shaping Points. You seem to suggest that "Via Points" is another category.

Ater selecting the 'Via Points" dropdown, I can ctrl-click on a Waypoint and convert it into a "Don't alert on arrival (shaping point", i.e. I can create a 'Shaping Point' which, by default, is unannounced

But, I can ctrl-click on a Shaping point and get the option to "alert on arrival", which I believed just made it an "announced Shaping Point". i.e. it was still a point that the software would allow you to miss without getting its knickers in a twist.

When I ctrl-click on either a Waypoint or a Shaping Point, there is also an option to "edit Via Point" which opens up a box which allows you to enter date and times for arrival and departure. It does not create a new type of point (a Via Point) but rather suggests to me that a Via Point can be either a Waypoint or a Shaping Point

I do not see the third (or intermediate) category of 'Via Point" that you seem to be suggesting. We have Shaping Points and Waypoints only, with the generic term for the two types of point being "Via Point",

Or, am I missing something?
 
As far as i can see the Nomenclature that garmin use is very confusing, it has been altered or added to over a period of time, below (copied from Garmin forum) is a example of how it is interpreted,

Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

Via Point - A point used to create a multipoint route, e.g. Go from Point A to Point B via some other arbitrary point(s) that you will designate. If your personal navigation device supports multipoint routing, the via point can be a POI, an existing waypoint/favorite or any other form of location that is searchable on your device, e.g. address, intersection/junction, custom POI, etc. In most cases, to use something as a via point it must already exist in one of the devices' searchable databases.

Shaping Point - In Mapsource, to "shape" a route to go exactly where you want there are a couple of methods. Just as with the personal navigation device, you can edit the route's properties to insert Via points (these are not shaping points although they do serve a similar purpose). You can also just use the route tool to click on spots on the map to force the shape of a route. When you do that, you are using a location that is not already in one of the searchable location databases. Mapsource does not force you to add these points to any of the formal databases. It simply inserts the actual coordinates invisibly into the route. These are shaping points.

Shaping points occur in another, automatic, fashion as well. Even when you only designate a two-point route, e.g. go from Point A to Point B, there will usually be multiple places, usually intersections, where a change in direction is required. When building the route, the personal navigation device (or Mapsource/Basecamp) will automatically include all of these points in the route.
 
So, Basecamp gives me the tools to create a Waypoint and to change a waypoint to a Shaping Point.

How or where do I create these mythical Via Points?
 
I guess Garmin creates them for you then. or re names them, because they call them via points, they do not seem very mythical to Garmin, highlight in blue (via point.) Please dont ask me why they choose to call it that i dont know, maybe an e mail to Garmin to ask the powers that be may furnish you with the answer.
 

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I think you have cracked it, Lee.

Now I have got used this way of describing points (Point of Interest, Waypoint, Via Point, Shaping Point) I find it useful. Here's another description of the points:

POI - A formal Point Of Interest. An entry in the internal POI database with a name, location and usually other information associated with it.

Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

Via Point - A point used to create a multipoint route, e.g. Go from Point A to Point B via some other arbitrary point(s) that you will designate. If your personal navigation device supports multipoint routing, the via point can be a POI, an existing waypoint/favorite or any other form of location that is searchable on your device, e.g. address, intersection/junction, custom POI, etc. In most cases, to use something as a via point it must already exist in one of the devices' searchable databases.

Shaping Point - In Mapsource, to "shape" a route to go exactly where you want there are a couple of methods. Just as with the personal navigation device, you can edit the route's properties to insert Via points (these are not shaping points although they do serve a similar purpose). You can also just use the route tool to click on spots on the map to force the shape of a route. When you do that, you are using a location that is not already in one of the searchable location databases. Mapsource does not force you to add these points to any of the formal databases. It simply inserts the actual coordinates invisibly into the route. These are shaping points.

Shaping points occur in another, automatic, fashion as well. Even when you only designate a two-point route, e.g. go from Point A to Point B, there will usually be multiple places, usually intersections, where a change in direction is required. When building the route, the personal navigation device (or Mapsource/Basecamp) will automatically include all of these points in the route.

To easily illustrate this, you can create a two-point route in Mapsource by clicking on a Point A and a Point B that will require a few turns to get from one to the other. Now export the route to a GPX file and take a look at it with Notepad or your favorite text editor. You will see that, in addition to the starting point and the ending point, there will be a bunch of other points <rtept> in the file to control all the turns.




My mistake in the past has been to misname or misdescribe 'Via Points' as 'Waypoints', when Waypoints more properly describes, 'Favourites'. Whether this has actually made any real difference to my life, I am not convinced. But, having discovered Garmin's way of naming the points and their description of the points' functions, I thought I might as well adopt it.
 
Also, I understand that when you are creating a route from the device screen you can use Waypoints and via points (ignoring POI for the moment).
E.g. I want to go from waypoint A to Waypoint B through via point C. The device does the routing according to its settings.

When working in Basecamp (mapsource) you use Waypoints and shaping points to create a set routes. Shaping points can be either announced or un-announced depending on your needs.
E.g. I want a route that goes from A to B but I want to ride some specific fun roads. YOU are designing the route and then effectively using your device to follow it.

In the second case, Using Autorecalculate when riding will strip out all the shaping points and you revert to the device doing the routing.

Nowadays, I think POI refers to things like garmin’s speed camera database and other such databases available from the likes of POIplace (if it’s still going)
 
Useful to know that Via Points are locations that exist within searchable databases. It helps to understand why clicking and dragging a route sometimes creates a Via Point rather than a shaping point, if the point that is selected happens to be a shop, or whatever, that is in one of the Garmin databases. The next can of worms is that I think different Garmin devices handle via points and shaping points in different ways if the point is missed out in the actual ride.
 
Useful to know that Via Points are locations that exist within searchable databases. It helps to understand why clicking and dragging a route sometimes creates a Via Point rather than a shaping point, if the point that is selected happens to be a shop, or whatever, that is in one of the Garmin databases. The next can of worms is that I think different Garmin devices handle via points and shaping points in different ways if the point is missed out in the actual ride.

You are correct the older units handle them in a different way to the newer units.
 
@Wapping makes a good summary of the various route points definitions that are used by Garmin. But there are a couple of very common mis-understandings


In Post #1
iii. Waypoints: An announced location, stored in BaseCamp or on the device itself. Examples would be, favourites or points of interest. These will be displayed on a Garnin device as a heart, unless they have been given bespoke symbols. Again, like via points, they can be given additional specific properties.

and in Post #8

Waypoint - Any arbitrary point on the map that you have designated you want to keep track of. Usually stored in the "Favorites" or "My Locations" or whatever your personal navigation device calls its waypoint storage database. Your device will usually allow you to store such things as the location, any arbitrary name you want to supply and other information such as address, phone number, category(ies) and a symbol/icon to be used when displaying it.

Waypoints have to exist before they can be used in a route. So they can be points from the Basecamp database or you can make them yourself. Once they are saved, they can be placed into a route, the route will regard them as either Shaping Points or Via Points. Basecamp will normally set them as Via Points by default, but this can be changed. So any Waypoint can be set as either a Shaping Point or a Via Point. Any point 'inserted' into the route can be made into a Via Point or a Shaping Point.

I will normally not bother about whether a route point appears as a Via Point or a Shaping Point unitl the route in Basecamp is complete. I set them as I want them later.


'Announcing Via Point' is a deliberate tautology. All Via Points announce as you approach and arrive. The term 'Announcing' is not really needed. I often use it as a reminder to the reader that the Via Point is the one that announces.
'Unannouncing Shaping Point' - the same applies. All shaping points are un-announced on the Zumo.

So there is no such thing as an 'Unannounced Via Point' or an 'Announced Shaping Point'. (Not that anyone has used these terms.)

--------

Garmin have been consistent with their use of the term 'Waypoint', but many other mapping software applications use the term 'Waypoint' to mean simply any point that is deliberaetly placed to pin the route onto a particular road.

Garmin's use of the terms Via Points and Shaping Points has developed - but the terms described above are correct for the later Zumos - ie the ones that use the Trip Planner App. The Zumo 500, 550, 600 and 660 do not have the trip planner App. There remains an anomaly in the Basecamp software which labels one column in the route properties table as 'Via Point'. Possibly a remnant from the earlier Mapsource Software. Confusing, because it is in the Via Point column where you are able to change any Via Point to a Shaping Point and vice versa.

You have to be careful of these terms when using Garmin devices, especially if you use planning software other than Basecamp. Programs like MyRouteApp seem to be making efforts to recognise that there are different kinds of route point for Garmin Users and their hand/teardrop icons are now referred to as Via and Shaping to match Garmin's definitions.

I have seen terms like 'Hard Waypoint' and 'Soft Waypoint' used in some contexts.

There is another consideration with the XT.

What appears to be a bug is that the XT (and the 595) may change the name of any route point once it has been sent to the Zumo. It seems to use the lat/long coordinates to obtain the name of the location from an internal database. Garmin did not seem to be aware of this issue when I reported it - but have told me that they are looking into it. However, it doesn't happen to every single point, and I have never seen it change the name of any route point if it was first created as a Waypoint.
 


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