license - insurance question [not bike related]

wittenham

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when i swapped the license from my home and native land to the UK back in the late 90s, I was given the choice of an automatic transmission-only license**, or I could retake the test if I wanted to drive manual. I did take lessons and retake my motorcycle test, mostly for safety reasons [there could not have been many people who arrived for their test on a 600 sports tourer]. I was not interested in the left foot work out driving in the SE entails, so opted for auto only.

I am now looking at buying a van and may do the full drivers test to remove the automatic only exclusion. Does anyone know if this means the answer to the question 'how long have you held your license?' goes from 'since Jesus was a little boy' to 'less than one year', with an accompanying hit on my insurance premiums?


** what DVLA actually said was 'if you can prove you got your current license by being tested on a manual transmission, we will give you a full license. Oddly enough, I had used a car with a manual box to pass my test. I rang up the Ontario equivalent of the DVLA to ask if they kept records of the transmission used. Their reply 'no, but we got a lot of queries like this from England...'
 
You should state the period you have held the licence for the vehicle you are asking to insure.
 
Ajay said:
You should state the period you have held the licence for the vehicle you are asking to insure.
Click to expand...

thanks, that is what I was afraid of. I guess i need to weigh up the cost/headache of an auto box van against the insurance cost of being a newly licensed driver.
 
& a related question, for which I cannot get through to DVLA. Can I treat my auto xmission license as a provisional license and therefore can drive a manual vehicle, provided there is a licensed driver in the passenger seat, etc?
 
wittenham said:
& a related question, for which I cannot get through to DVLA. Can I treat my auto xmission license as a provisional license and therefore can drive a manual vehicle, provided there is a licensed driver in the passenger seat, etc?
Click to expand...
Yes, as you are a learner for that licence group you require a suitably qualified driver to supervise you.


VW used to do Caravelle's as automatic.

The question usually is, how long since you passed your car test, not how long since you passed a test to drive a manual rather than automatic. If you are not asked this by the insurers, then it can't be important or relevant.

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don't Mercedes do an auto panel van? I seem to remember a friend had one for his business.
 
I think you’ll find that their get out of jail card is usually a requirement for you to disclose all relevant facts to them in the proposal.
 
Oldrat said:
I think you’ll find that their get out of jail card is usually a requirement for you to disclose all relevant facts to them in the proposal.
Click to expand...
Regulations changed couple of years ago, another one of those pesky EU rules.


If, you are not specifically asked, then it cannot be of importance and the insurer cannot rely on your failures.

How do you know, what they think is relevant, unless it is asked about ?

If you are asked, when did you gain a full car licence is the answer;

A) 15 years ago
B) 6 weeks ago
C) which one, manual or auto ?

I would ask, what additional risk you are from driving a manual over an automatic vehicle.

Sod all would be my view.

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This all assumes that the OP will pass his test in a manual vehicle..... and I guess that his new licence allows him to drive vehicles of the size and weight he has in mind. I only mention this as weren’t UK licences ‘de-tuned’ a while ago, cutting back on the weight limits?
 
Wapping said:
This all assumes that the OP will pass his test in a manual vehicle..... and I guess that his new licence allows him to drive vehicles of the size and weight he has in mind. I only mention this as weren’t UK licences ‘de-tuned’ a while ago, cutting back on the weight limits?
Click to expand...
Well reminded, if he passed his original test prior to 1997 he's ok as he will already have a B1 then it's up to 8250kg, if he only has a B then 3500kg.

I'm unsure what happens if he has a B1 (auto) and then gains a B (manual).

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As regards the question.... it might swell depend on what the question is and the circumstances surrounding it. Let’s assume that matey passes his test and wants to insure a manual vehicle. His insurer will ask him the make / model / registration details / modifications etc (all the usual stuff). Then the questions might be:

A. Do you hold a licence to drive the vehicle..... truthful answer is, yes

B. How long have you held the licence..... truthful answer, two minutes..... He could then go on to explain how and why and declare / debate any accumulated No Claims Bonus, convictions etc etc etc. Whilst this goes on, he can ponder that it is conversations like this that take time; time, when the chimp on the other end of the phone could have been selling bog standard insurance to other bods, which explains why the same chimps levy those ‘rip-off’ charges for alterations.

Look at it another way perhaps? I passed my driving test umpteen years ago but do not hold an HGV licence. Were I to take and pass an HGV test tomorrow, my licence to drive the vehicle would start from that date. When asked, would I say I passed my test years ago or just recently?
 
Wapping said:
As regards the question.... it might swell depend on what the question is and the circumstances surrounding it. Let’s assume that matey passes his test and wants to insure a manual vehicle. His insurer will ask him the make / model / registration details / modifications etc (all the usual stuff). Then the questions might be:

A. Do you hold a licence to drive the vehicle..... truthful answer is, yes

B. How long have you held the licence..... truthful answer, two minutes..... He could then go on to explain how and why and declare / debate any accumulated No Claims Bonus, convictions etc etc etc. Whilst this goes on, he can ponder that it is conversations like this that take time; time, when the chimp on the other end of the phone could have been selling bog standard insurance to other bods, which explains why the same chimps levy those ‘rip-off’ charges for alterations.

Look at it another way perhaps? I passed my driving test umpteen years ago but do not hold an HGV licence. Were I to take and pass an HGV test tomorrow, my licence to drive the vehicle would start from that date. When asked, would I say I passed my test years ago or just recently?
Click to expand...
An hgv is a totally different classification of licence, a more comparable one would be going from a class 2 to a class 1.

You are correct, the time taken to cover their call over 2 straight forward give us the money calls, but it averages out, unless it really is a drive to the bottom.

You know far more about insurance than us, what actuarial evidence do you think would be used, assuming several years experience driving, with no claims, of an automatic and then changing to a manual.

Just to be difficult, should there be an insurance change for some who passed their test in a manual, but is now restricted to an automatic for health grounds ?

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A combined manual / automatic licence, is completely separate to an ‘automatic only’ licence. With the first you can drive both types of vehicle, with the second you are stuck with only automatics. As to the relative ‘risk exposures’ of driving a manual over an automatic, I have no idea and no great interest in finding out. HMG, for whatever reasons, certainly thinks - and says - there is a difference in the skill levels required between the two, that’s for sure.

I don’t do ‘Moataaaaah’ as it’s practitioners are prone to pronounce it.

I think it is very often sold by chimps (some of whose business practices, I would be drummed out of the Brownies for) and very often bought by chimps. Ironically, very often the only ‘honest’ party in the three way triangle of chimp buyer, chimp seller and insurer, is the insurer themselves.

As regards your last question, there are, I guess, two parts to it:

i. The nature of the health condition, some of which need to be declared, I think?

ii. That the driver (who held a full driving licence for a manual vehicle, as I do) to switch to an automatic, does not require a re-test, so it would be irrelevant, I guess.


And yup, it’s a drive to the bottom. The bottom seems to have been hit for some buyers and prices are rising / any cover at all, becoming all but impossible to buy. This rise is not limited to domestic private ‘Moataaaaah’, we are seeing the same on giant industrial accounts, across several lines of business and cover. This started well before Covid-19 claims started to come in, the true affect of which might not be known for several years.

:beerjug:
 
Wapping said:
I don’t do ‘Moataaaaah’ as it’s practitioners are prone to pronounce it.

I think it is very often sold by chimps (some of whose business practices, I would be drummed out of the Brownies for) and very often bought by chimps. Ironically, very often the only ‘honest’ party in the three way triangle of chimp buyer, chimp seller and insurer, is the insurer themselves.

As regards your last question, there are, I guess, two parts to it:

i. The nature of the health condition, some of which need to be declared, I think?

ii. That the driver (who held a full driving licence for a manual vehicle, as I do) to switch to an automatic, does not require a re-test, so it would be irrelevant, I guess.


And yup, it’s a drive to the bottom. The bottom seems to have been hit for some buyers and prices are rising / any cover at all, becoming all but impossible to buy. This rise is not limited to domestic private ‘Moataaaaah’, we are seeing the same on giant industrial accounts, across several lines of business and cover. This started well before Covid-19 claims started to come in, the true affect of which might not be known for several years.
Click to expand...
I know, but you often have a better insight than most.

Yes, you have to declare most medical conditions.

It was after a driving assessment, that she was restricted to hand controls and an automatic, her manual driving licence would be technically revoked although had she got better, (not likely) then the manual part would be returned, upon completion of the then current testing criteria, if she voluntarily gave up her manual licence then all she had to do was pass a medical reassessment for driving and she'd get her manual part back.

The question is if you already been driving an automatic (or vice versa) for 10+ years with no claims, are you really such a risk compared to someone who only passed any car test.

Hopefully the op passes his test and isn't unduly screwed over.

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Tractors are go said:
The question is if you already been driving an automatic (or vice versa) for 10+ years with no claims, are you really such a risk compared to someone who only passed any car test.

Hopefully the op passes his test....
Click to expand...

I have no idea. No doubt there are actuarial models that would tell you, along with lots of other variables.

Indeed....
 
Thanks all for the input. Let's assume I pass the test [otherwise, this is all academic].

- I passed my test on a manual in Canada in about 1978 [the manual bit is now irrelevant, because of the next point]
- I swapped my Canadian license for a British automatic-only in 2000
- my UK license has a code showing that I exchanged my Canadian license, but not the date I passed in Canada
- by coincidence, the UK license code for auto-only is 78 [the same as my first license pass], which had me temporarily excited about having a dated pass record

So, the open questions:
- can I drive the pre-97 pass heavier vehicle? [8250kg]? I think the answer is probably 'no'. There is no record of the date I passed the Canadian test, it may have been in 1999 for all the British authorities know.
- if, after passing, I insure a manual vehicle, how do I answer the 'number of years i have held a license?' question - I think it has to be <1, because it is relevant for the type of vehicle [same as if I had just passed a motorcycle test]. Ideally, the insurance company would do the risk calculation for someone in my situation, but i suspect they do not get enough of these examples to bother.

Lessons from this:
- it would be nice if DVLA would answer their phone, rather than auto-disconnecting. Or if that online help thing was actually online.
- tests are on an eight month waiting list, anyway
- see, what a mess: that is what comes of allowing immigrants into the country
 
Have revisited my earlier reply. I would reply to the question as the insurer asks it

i.e. "How long have you held a car licence" - you can answer then date you originally got a UK licence.

If the insurer asks when you got a manual car licence, then its the later date (Just checked Aviva & Direct Line, they don't differentiate)

If there's a caveat about "relevant" facts then you'd have to declare, although Tractors Are Go tells us insurers cannot ask that question anymore so you should be OK

No idea regarding 3500kg/8250kg.
 
Ajay said:
Have revisited my earlier reply. I would reply to the question as the insurer asks it

i.e. "How long have you held a car licence" - you can answer then date you originally got a UK licence.

If the insurer asks when you got a manual car licence, then its the later date (Just checked Aviva & Direct Line, they don't differentiate)

If there's a caveat about "relevant" facts then you'd have to declare, although Tractors Are Go tells us insurers cannot ask that question anymore so you should be OK

No idea regarding 3500kg/8250kg.
Click to expand...
It isn't that they can't ask, just that you have to answer any questions truthfully and to the best of your knowledge.

If you aren't asked it cannot be important, therefore the previous position that insurers took about a failure to disclose and voiding a claim can no longer happen.



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