Thermal liners

jacq

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I am currently looking for my next riding suit.
I've noticed that more and more jacket/pants are currently being sold without thermal liners.
Especially when you look at laminated jackets/trousers form companies like Rukka, Klim or even Revit.
Obviously this is the way to make their products cheaper.
They also say "rider will know better what to wear".

My question is: What do you wear to make yourself warm when riding in those clothes that doesn't come with thermal liners?

I can imagine some polar or softshell under the jacket. Maybe something else?
What about trousers?

Also, do you find that system better than z-liners?
 
I always remove any existing jacket thermal liners and replace them with a heated one, via a controller for comfort.
 
the best one I've ever had was a Kushitani Suit... comes with a quilted thermal liner which you cantake out and it's utterly brilliant never seen anyone else have one they only had one in the country when I bought mine... so either I've found a unicorn or I'm different to anyone else...
 
Or if you're long-distance touring though very different temperature ranges you throw the liners away because they don't pack down small enough.

Best combination I've found so far for London-Beijing was Klim Badlands suit with Rukka Down-X liners. Always rain (sometimes snow) proof. Always warm enough. Well enough vented until industrial China and 38 degrees plus, when a laminated suit is rubbish, no matter how many vents it has.

For Columbia - Patagonia I shall be wearing Twat suit, Rukka Down-X liners and carrying Klim Forecast rain suit.

Layering. It's the future...
 
Get a light weight down jacket to wear underneath. Very warm, little bulk and pack up small.

You can get a cheap one from Uniqlo or similar, but a good one will start getting expensive.

Rukka went this way with the Nivala suit and it works a treat. Chuck it in your bag and if the weather gets really cold, just slip it on. Added bonus is that it's perfect to go out in in the evening as well.

The Rukka one is very good. It's cut shorter in the body and longer in the arms for riding.

Rukka down liner, Rukka Forsair mesh jacket and a tight fitting waterproof outer layer and you are covered for everything. Plus the down and the waterproof layer pack down really small.
 
I am thinking about Rukka Kalix 2.0 jaceket+trousers or Rev'it Ridge jacekt + Globe trousers.
I have my Rev'it Sand for summer riding and I am tempted to try laminate. I am fed up with carying separate rain suit with me.
 
I have removed the thermal liner from my Hein Gericke Cruise jacket that I use for commuting. I prefer to wear a fleece under the jacket but over my day clothes if it is cold. I can then use the fleece at lunchtime if I go out for a walk. I wear Weis overtrousers over my work trousers if it is cold or wet.

For touring, I use a Keis heated waistcoat to keep me warm under my Rukka jacket and I have ditched the thermal liner. I also have heated insoles and I have an old pair of Rukka trousers which are only used in winter. These are kept with the thermal liner fitted as I leave the wiring for the insoles in between the outer layer and thermal layer.
 
For more years than I can remember, I've removed the thermal liners from my jackets and worn a zip neck Rohan Outlast fleece over a variety of wicking base layers, usually Patagonia or Merino wool. I have a heated back pad which slips into the back protector pocket on my jacket and that heats the whole fleece. I also have a pair of old Rukka trousers with Outlast linings and they provide a similar effect. However, I think my days of winter riding have come to a sensible end.

In the days when I was still daft enough to ride in mid winter, I would sometimes resort to a Buffalo Shirt or down jacket instead of the fleece and on one memorable occasion, wore a North Face Mountain Jacket over the top
as well. That was on ride to Samye Ling with Boz and Straypuss one January about 15 years ago. A layer of Gore-Tex over another layer of Gore-Tex offers great protection from windchill.
 
If you remove the liner out of any jacket / trousers (or there is not one from day one) the answers are always the same:

A. Do not use the kit on cold days; own a second suit. Or.....

B. Use appropriate layers. Opinion will differ as to what constitutes good material / makes of clothing make ‘the best’ layers. Some like merino, some the synthetic equivalent, others might like something that came from the army surplus shop or a T-shirt and sweatshirt advertising the makers of their motorbike.

C. An electrically heated layer, which might evolve to embrace an inner jacket, liners for their trousers, heated socks and heated gloves or glove liners.

D. Put the liners back.

Do some reading up on layering (it has been around for years) and do the same on electrical clothing. Work out which you think will suit you best and / or how much you want to spend.


Me? I have a choice, though I have not raided the army surplus stores nor do I posses a BMW branded T-shirt. Why a choice? It will depend on what I think the weather / temperature will be like. This is no different to me deciding to wear a rain coat and carry an umbrella, or whether just to take an umbrella for my walk to work or whether to take neither and just chance it.

In truth, the electrical clothing (all four items, individually controlled via two separate, two pot, wireless controllers) maybe works best. That being said, I might well not use it, instead using a fleece, if I think I will be sitting around outside or walking to a bar on a spring or autumn evening. Or I might not use the electrical trouser liners but use base layer ‘tights’ instead. I am a big believer in clothing that doubles-up to save space. For example, a decent fleece can serve two purposes: Use it on the bike or off. There again, it might depend on how bulky the fleece is and / or what you have on beneath it and / or how much room there is beneath your chosen outer jacket. In other words, there is no hard and fast rule.

In short, I am not dissimilar to the post from Schtum, in that I cannot remember when I last left the generic liner(s) inside my Rukka gear. That includes removing (from day one) the rather nifty liners that come with the Nivala suit, which others quite like and never putting them back in again. Put simply, I prefer to make my own choices as to what to wear, my mum having left me to my own devices years ago.

Here’s an example for a month away, camping in France, for the last three weeks in August and the first week in September:

1. A Rukka ‘air mesh’ suit, unlined and not at all waterproof. Some ‘summer only’ gloves and waterproof Daytona boots.

2. A waterproof over jacket and trousers, along with some waterproof ‘three season’ gloves. I could have taken the GoreTex liners for the ‘air mesh’ suit but I opted for the over jacket and trousers, simply as I thought it would be quicker to put them on, should I encounter a sudden heavy downpour or the temperature dropped suddenly in the mountains.

3. A thin Rukka equivalent of a fleece but not as ‘hairy’ if you get my drift. Again, something not too bulky I could wear beneath the ‘air mesh’ if I felt like it or wear in the evening, when the sun dipped down below the mountains.

4. A merino T-shirt and an alternative, merino long sleeved version, both with half zips.

5. A Buff.

I worked out that I was unlikely to need anything electrically heated. It all worked fine. If I did the same journey in November or March, I would take a very different - fully waterproof - suit, very probaby my electrical gear (in some sort of combination) and say, a heavier fleece. I would also probably not camp.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I get some really nice ideas. Much appreciated.
So the top part is covered quite heavily by all of you.
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?
 
Thanks for all the comments. I get some really nice ideas. Much appreciated.
So the top part is covered quite heavily by all of you.
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?

with any Goretex garment you want some sort of wicking payer. In most conditions that most people ride in, a merino wool baselayer is adequate insulation.

You can also buy electrically heated liners for trousers.

As mentioned above, I subscribe to what Wapping mentioned i.e. have multiple garments and keep a pair of winter trousers with a thermal liner. I cannot wear these in summer any more as the thin liner has torn at the top of the leg but they are fine in winter with the thermal liner.

In my experience, if you ride all year then there is no single solution but comfort is a priority so you need to learn and adapt. I just wish I had not waited until 2014 to buy electrically heated clothing.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I get some really nice ideas. Much appreciated.
So the top part is covered quite heavily by all of you.
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?

I use Merino wool leggings under biking jeans, and the Down-X trousers under my Nivala pants. The Down-X trousers are actually too warm unless it's really cold outside. They are also too bulky to wear under bike jeans unless your jeans are fairly loose fitting.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I get some really nice ideas. Much appreciated.
So the top part is covered quite heavily by all of you.
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?

I would recommend making a cuppa and watching some of the videos from Motolegends HERE or on their Youtube channel.
Everything you could possibly want to know, and nice people to deal with and buy from (they don't stock cheap stuff, but you get good advice and quality gear).
 
.....
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?

Again, the answers is layers or electricity, as the bottom half is little different (other than in shape) from the top.

For what it’s worth, I have the choice of both, depending on how cold I think it will be. Two different thicknesses of merino wool ‘tights’ (Icebreaker) and my RapidFire electric trouser liners (I can add socks) controlled independently from each other and from my electric jacket and gloves via a wireless controller. On top of this, a fully waterproof Rukka suit. Or I could, if it were a chilly spring or autumn morning where I expected it to be hot later, just put the lightest denier ‘tights’ under my unlined mesh trousers. Merino is also really good as a lining layer beneath leathers on really hot days. It’s all up to you.

I am also lucky in that my 1600 has a heated seat and very good heated grips.
 
Got the Nivala Jacket. The Down X inner jacket is really, really warm. Packs down fairly small as well in its own bag.

Without the inner jacket and using the vents, jacket is fine up to mid 20's and with a couple layers very good down to 7 / 8 degs. The chest armour cuts out a lot of wind chill.

Kallix 2 pants have no thermal lining and are great with merino leggings if cold, but work for me on those rainy warmer days.

I don't like bulky and this works well for me in a wide temperature band

Got the Kevlar jeans and Rukka Forsair jacket for hot days with a pertex innershell top and leggings (not EDZ, got one from a sailing shop half the price) if it gets cooler. Both pack to the size of a tennis ball.
 
OK. So I thing I am going to settle on Kalix 2 suit.
Some nice merino leggings (maybe Rukka Moody?).
I have a nice collection of technical base layers I've been using with my Rev'it dropliner jacket.
I need to get some nice mid-layer. I like the idea of having mid-layer that you can wear on its own.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I get some really nice ideas. Much appreciated.
So the top part is covered quite heavily by all of you.
What about the thermals for your trousers. Do you just use long johns of some description?
I saw that Rukka is selling Down-X trousers that go under the laminated trousers.
Any alternatives for that?

I have Dane Gore Tex Pro with liners. I use the jacket liner as it packs up pretty small and gives a good extra amount of warmth but the trouser liners are quite bulky so I just bought some cheap thermal leggings from Sports Direct. They do the job and don't interfere with zips/boots/etc.
 
Or if you're long-distance touring though very different temperature ranges you throw the liners away because they don't pack down small enough.

Best combination I've found so far for London-Beijing was Klim Badlands suit with Rukka Down-X liners. Always rain (sometimes snow) proof. Always warm enough. Well enough vented until industrial China and 38 degrees plus, when a laminated suit is rubbish, no matter how many vents it has.

For Columbia - Patagonia I shall be wearing Twat suit, Rukka Down-X liners and carrying Klim Forecast rain suit.

Layering. It's the future...

No idea about all that expensive kit, but completely agree that layering is the answer.
 


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