Buying Advice, please? Non-matching numbers

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Gelandestrasse

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Going to view an early R100RS on Sunday which has good provenance (1 owner from new) and some desirable modifications (no, not cafe racer ones!) and an alleged engine rebuild by Jim Cray.

Asked the question about matching numbers, and due to JimC sentencing the original crankcase, a replacement was found, so now the numbers don't match. It's probably done 10k on the rebuilt engine.

It's still a desirable bike but also commanding 'originality' money at the moment. What's the general feel about the value of a great bike that lacks the engine it was born with, please?

Thinking of offering a %age of the asking price......
 
Only you can answer the value question.

“It’s worth what it’s worth to the man that wants to buy it” and all that.
 
Well, thanks for the opinions. Wish me luck for tomorrow morning. If I get it, I'll probably splash it all over these pages!
 
I would say that the engine swap does impact the value,simply by making it less desirable,
Buyers and definitely collectors want matching number bikes.
Something like a 90s maybe devalued by as much as £1500/£2k .
This could make the difference to me certainly as to whether I’d buy a high value bike to restore or not.
No point in carrying out a £10 k restoration to not be able to sell it anywhere near the price of its matching number counterpart.
All of this is a bit of a moot point if the bike is just going to be used.
But I’d certainly be using the info to my own advantage when making an offer:thumb
 
If you want to know how it went, read on:

I travelled 2 hours each way to see the bike, a 1-owner-from-new 1977 R100RS, had many desirable modifications: Blueprinted engine; twin plugged; with 40mm Dellorto carbs; a prototype Boyer Bransden electronic ignition (runs of crankshaft not camshaft) and a deep sump. Fitted with a Heinrich tank, option of ¾ and dual seat, with front fork brace and San Jose braced swingarm. Polished Lester wheels.

The bike’s condition was excellent unrestored; the custom paintjob is still very presentable and needed no work. However, the fork seals looked like they needed replacing soon and the rear bevel seal leak was evident with oil over the final drive unit and swingarm. But there were no engine oil leaks.

I was happy enough so far, and took the bike for a short test-ride. Immediately I was aware of a low-speed steering issue; probably down to the restricted movement of the forks in the fairing bellow seals and the gaitors causing what felt like the steering damper full-on. But it was in position ‘0’. I cautiously opened the throttle to see how it progressed in the 30mph limit. Gratifyingly, the issue subsided, but returned again at slow speed, making a right turn at a mini-roundabout difficult. Out in the short section of de-restricted road a mismatch of front and rear suspension was apparent; harsh, bouncy front with a soft, overdamped rear. I was expecting to feel more torque and power on acceleration. On the plus side the engine was smooth, lacked any worrying noises, and the gearchange was very smooth (for a non-kinetic box). As I pulled in I think the decision was apparent on my face! I considered the test-drive a fail (due to low-speed handling and the suspension mismatch).

If the bike was cheaper (that is, the seller compromising the price due to the repair work), I would have been happy to sort out the issues myself (or pay someone to do it) but the seller was asking top-dollar and, at the time, unwilling to drop. The leaks and the test-ride combined to reduce my enthusiasm; I declined to get into an offer/counter-offer situation. I thanked the owner for his time and came home.

If anyone is interested in contacting the owner let me know. It doesn't feel right to link to his advert here.
 
Sounds like a good decision
Top money and oil leaks don’t mix
I’ve been caught with similar handling issues only to find 10psi in the front tyre but again, top money and pressures not checked...
There’ll be others
 
Saw this bike come up for sale on facebook (after your comments). Personally I don’t like the large tank, or the paint job.

It will sell, but probably to someone who is not as knowledgeable as the OP.

Don’t worry, there’s plenty of bikes out there, just be prepared to be patient and wait until the right bike comes up.

Bubb
 
As a one owner bike surely JC would have offered the crankcase back to the owner for provenance??
 
As a one owner bike surely JC would have offered the crankcase back to the owner for provenance??

The crankcase could have been sentenced by Competition Engineering Services (BTW do they still exist?) in the early 80's, who blueprinted the engine. The records have not been documented by the owner (AFAIK). In my chat with JC he mentioned that new crankcases can still be got (and therefore would have been available back in the day). If one was u/s (eg oil pump housing worn) it was cheaper to replace the crankcase than mill+sleeve. The BMW 'way' was to scrap the crankcase and stamp the bike's frame number on the new crankcase. JC still has the stamps to do this (what a find!). If I had bought the bike I would have liked to have taken a trip to see JC and look in his store....
 
To quote Mr Martin : “If it’s not right, it’s wrong.” Walking away is the right choice. As to value, originality adds value in any old thing. All other things being equal. If it’s not original, it goes into the haggling pot.

Is this the smoke brown one that’s been hanging around for a bit? :augie


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Is this the smoke brown one that’s been hanging around for a bit?

The very same.

Oh sod it, I've just managed to make a deal with the seller; I pick up at the weekend. First jobs will be the steering/suspension!

I'll close this thread now and start a new one with the story in pictures.
 
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