Santander to Holland

We are planning a trip for 2022 and an option is ferry from Portsmouth to Santander and then riding a bit of Northern Spain, Pyrenees and then coast road through France to Belgium. Total time probably 10 days including ferry. Anyone experienced with this or any tips?
Also I see Britany Ferries have only 4 berth cabins. Can you book these for single use?

If you are starting in Santander, then ‘riding the Pyrenees’ it might suggest you are travelling west to east, then riding the Mediterranean coast, before turning left somewhere to get to Belgium.

There again, you could be anticipating picking up the French coast at say, Biarritz. Then heading north, following the coast all the way around until Ostend.

Either way, the roads tracking the French coast are sometimes not the most exciting.

Can you throw a bit more light on what you have in mind, please. If you could also let us know how long you have in mind as having available, between departing the Pyrenees and arriving in Belgium.

As Wapping suggests, roads a bit more inland might be a tad more interesting.

I do have a few routes that are interesting.
Depending on how much time you have, you cold cross all the way towards the Maritime Alps and then head north (you could cut through Switzerland too, but gets very long).

I'm in Rome at my parents' at the moment and working off my laptop... trying (unsuccessfully) to get Basecamp to work so I can post a couple of route suggestions.

Habemus Papam


There are a lot of extra routes here (I downloaded some external route around the , but generally the pink ones are routes I've done:




This bit is the one I've done on the way back from the Pyrenees a few years ago. We then proceeded directly north from Lyon, getting back to the UK.
It has been the correct amount of twist and progress-y type of road on the way back, before the bore from Lyon heading north.

Theres should be a track of this, posted by me in one of the many Pyrenees threads over here.

To go to Belgium, you can keep going east and then follow towards Alsace that has some nice flowing routes going north. But it really depends to personal preference I guess.

I like er-minio’s idea.

What you could consider doing, is trying the route I used in early September 2020, as a part of a lap of France that I made. In basic terms:

Millau

Across to Provence, I did this in a day. If I wasn’t in a hurry, I would break this into two, perhaps. I then spent two days in Provence.

From Provence, up to Chambery. I did this in a day. I’d maybe break this into two, stopping in say, Rencurel, then doing the diagonal to the Morvan from there.

Across on the diagonal from Chambery to the Morvan. Again, one day. I might add a day in to ride around the Morvan.

Across on the diagonal from the Morvan to Verdun. One day. I spent a day in Verdun.

Then off you go to Belgium from there….. one day.

All on D roads, with a bit on N roads lobbed in….. except to get out of Chambery, where I took the motorway to roughly Macon, simply as I wanted to skirt Lyon. The roads westwards out of Chambery track the motorway anyway, so you might as well bite the bullet if you want to get on.

Sort of a bit like this….
























It does though really depend on what you have in mind and how long you have got.

If you wanted to stay sort of on the west side of France, you could go roughly:

Pau, Limoges, Troyes, Namur. Or something like that. I have done something like that, but coming the other way.

thanks Wapping & er-minio.
The plan was to take the ferry from Hook of Holland to Harwich and ride to Portsmouth to pick up the Santander ferry. This can be done in a day. Ferry gets in at Harwich at 0630 - plenty of time to ride down to Portsmouth for the 1400 sailing to Santander. The ferry is 30 hours so arrival would be day 3. The idea was then to ride up as far as Belgium / France border and take 7-8 days doing so. We worked it out if we take the coast it would be around 2000 km so average say 275km a day this would take us 7 days. Plus 1 day as buffer then the whole trip would be around 12 days.
however reading above maybe the coast is not the best so maybe further east and then inland through France is the best.
The aim is to make it a fun 10-12 day holiday through northern Spain and through France avoiding any motorways but sticking to the bigger B roads and A roads where we can make a comfortable 275-300km per day. Stops in nice villages with reasonable hotels - EURO 100 per night.

however reading above maybe the coast is not the best so maybe further east and then inland through France is the best.

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I've done the Atlantic coast a couple of times. By car.
Plenty enjoyable, Dijon is lovely, the sand dune at Pilat is great, splendid wines, relaxing areas, but it's way more enjoyable done by car.
I wouldn't advise riding that. Lots and lots of straight lines.

By the way, as mentioned, the .gpx file for the route I suggested in my first post (and some more information about it) is available in this thread: https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...Pyrenees-GPX?p=5731046&viewfull=1#post5731046

7-8 days to go from Santander to Belgium, via the Pyrenees is doable for sure.

All you have to to now is decide whether you spend more time in the Pyrenees and less time crossing across France to Belgium / Holland (and which way to cross) or visa-versa. As you are taking time out (30 hours) for the sea crossing from the UK to Spain, I guess the Pyrenees trumps France? But, there again, you might see the total journey (Holland > UK > Sea crossing > Spain > France > Belgium / Home) as one, all of equal measure, perhaps?

I wouldn’t necessarily write off putting in some motorway somewhere. I don’t subscribe to the “I never take a motorway anywhere” mantra but that’s just me. I’ll gladly spend a morning, an afternoon or, if necessary, an entire day on a motorway if it (a) cut out something that was not too special (the world is not always full of ‘great roads’) or (b) If it meant I could spend longer somewhere else, where there were indeed ‘great roads’ (c) It just meant I could do something else, somewhere else. Others might see this as some sort of heresy but, you know what, I don’t care.

For example, when I went from Millau, to Provence, to Chambery, to the Morvan, to Verdun, to Calais, I knew I wanted to spend two full days in Provence and one full day in Verdun. In other words, three full days when I wasn’t actually going forwards towards Calais. I was also camping, which (whether bods like it or not) does take more time than simply rocking up at a hotel, eating, sleeping and departing. I therefore inserted a chunk of motorway between Chambery, past Lyon and up to roughly Macon, in order to have a decent ride through the Morvan, to my next stop at Quarré-les-Tombes. The morning spent on the motorway, meant that I could have my two full days in Provence, my full day in Verdun and take D and N roads between Millau and Calais; to my mind, it was a good trade off. Of course, I could have sacrificed one or both of the days in Provence (or missed the area entirely) or skipped the day in Verdun….. or not gone to Chambery at all….. or done something entirely different between Millau and Calais….. or not gone to Millau….. or spent longer going along the Pyrenees from Pau to the Mediterranean, instead of the two days I took….. or not of had a full day off in Millau…… This shows how many potential variables there are between Pau and Calais, which is not hugely different from your intended Santander to Belgium.

Let us know what you rough out for your journey, please.


PS The way I went between Millau and Apt, in Provence, took me through the wilderness between Millau and Uzès before hitting Avignon in the local rush hour. Taking the D roads that I took between Millau and Uzès, is not quick. The roads are often narrow, sometimes not more than a car and a half wide, switching back and forth across valleys and gorges. It’s great fun (if you like that kind of thing) but there is nothing; no fuel, no lunch stop, it really is a wilderness. I knew this before I set off, with a full tank, a full Camelback and a sandwich. Had I just sailed out of the door with a quarter of a tank and no water and thought, “It’s only 100 miles”, I might well have been in for a shock. I should have jumped on the motorway to skip past congested Avignon at 33 degrees centigrade in the afternoon….. stupidly, I knew this but somehow forgot. Hey-ho, that’s life.

How about this, sketched out very roughly in Kurviger. It is by no means exact, used simply as a way to show a possible set of ideas.

In total it is 2,688 km or 1,680 miles avoiding all motorways, spread over eight days, giving an average daily mileage of 210 miles. The downside is that it’s eight days (your maximum duration) so there is little to no slack in the system.




In this version , I asked Kurviger to avoid all motorways but to miss out real goat tracks. One of Kurviger’s great features is that you can ask the software to change the routing algorithm for each section.

For example, in the version one above, I made Chambery to the top of the Morvan (stage 5 to 6 on the map) all avoiding motorways. I think it would be a good idea to insert motorway between Chambery and Macon, so I would insert Macon, as a via point, between the two and ask Kurviger to favour motorways between the two places. This would give:




It is very slightly further but (obviously) quicker.

The ability to change the algorithm for sub-sections of a route is a feature of Kurviger ‘Traveller’, which is a paid for add-on. At only EUR 10 a year, I think it’s worthwhile.

For roughing out long routes such as yours, I think Kurviger ‘Traveller’ is pretty good. I did all this using nothing more than an iPad. I’d then recreate it / fine tune it in BaseCamp before sending it to my Garmin device.

To carry on this idea a bit further and / or to build some slack into the jaunt, it’s easy to see how you might cut a whole section out:



That cuts out two and a half days, at the expense of adding in however long it takes you to ride the length of the red line; which won’t take two and a half days, obviously.

Blimey, you have caught Wapping in a good mood! Looks a good route with helpful info.

I had a battering along the lower west coast of France against the wind a while back. Found it boring too.

Nice pics as well! Now whilst you're in a good mood , about my Spanish trip next week............

Indeed, thanks very much Wapping, really appreciated!! This will really help in getting something together for next year!
Cheers All for the tips!

I hope we'll get a detailed travel report then too!

I would ride down the Pyrenees, starting on the French side and the high passes (Aubisque / Tourmalet / Aspin) then drop into Spain and stay at Hotel Terradets for 2 nights and do a loop on the N260 and some other good passes on the Spanish side) then continue to South of France and across Cevennes (Tarn Gorge) then over Ventoux and up RDGA (well some of it - pick it up at Castallane) before popping back out and up.

Similar to Wappings route.

Just so you're clear; you do know that the Portsmouth to Spain ferries are two nights as opposed to the a single night from Plymouth?

Enginerelight said:

Just so you're clear; you do know that the Portsmouth to Spain ferries are two nights as opposed to the a single night from Plymouth?

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Thanks, no I did not know this. Thought the portsmouth crossing was quicker but now you mention it it seems logical

grantmac said:

Thanks, no I did not know this. Thought the portsmouth crossing was quicker but now you mention it it seems logical

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We did portsmouth/bilbao ferry a couple of weeks ago and that sailed late pm and arrived next day 17.00??? Cap Finistere, our return was santander/plymouth and that also ,depart late pm, arrival next day 11.00

russ996duke said:

We did portsmouth/bilbao ferry a couple of weeks ago and that sailed late pm and arrived next day 17.00??? Cap Finistere, our return was santander/plymouth and that also ,depart late pm, arrival next day 11.00

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Hmmm.... Your first would make it a crossing of around 18 hours, which I doubt. The minimum crossing time on this route is 23:30 on the smaller, faster ferry; your second would make it a crossing time of about 12- 14 hours (allowing for your vague S.T.D), which I seriously doubt!

In any case, look VERY carefully, grantmac, at the timings and dates of arrival when you book. I say this because I had to look into some options for next year's tour in a bid to extend our trip by a day or two. What I found was that one extra day was eaten up by the extra night on the ferry (for 2022).

I hasten to add that I didn't look at EACH of the three weekly crossings; one or two of them might be one single night on the ferry. One of them is most certainly not, however.

Yep well one night on ferry each way is a lot better than what you were warning about