Cali 1100i cold starting problem

fuseman

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I've had my 1997 Cali 1100i for 16 years - it's well maintained and only covered 13k miles - used only in dry.

It has always been a bit unkeen to start if it's not been ridden for a few months despite a battery conditioner but this has got much worse recently - often taking 10 or more attempts over several minutes to get it going. Once it catches it runs fine and will restart instantly that day - with no choke if it's even a bit warm still.

I've had the plugs out - they seem fine and not obviously flooded which was my initial hunch - that I was being over-eager on the choke and throttle. However it's getting much worse this last year or two and I would appreciate any thoughts on the cause.

I'm pretty sure it's not the battery - the starter turns very quickly. Also doesn't seem electrical since it runs very smoothly once it has started with no misfires and pulls well.

I wonder if it's a fuel problem but since it's fuel injected I'm not sure where to start looking for a problem.

All ideas appreciated.

Martin
 
Initially I'm thinking electronic pet-cock or the relays under the seat - does the fuel pump sound like it kicks in correctly when you turn the key?
 
Hi, if the fuel pump does not hum when you turn the ignition on suspect the relay or ecu, I would suggest you check and clean the cam shaft and crank shaft phase sensors, one is to the front of the left hand cylinder, the other is on the right hand side at the rear of the cylinder dead simple to do, take one out connect it to a multi meter ( buzzer or light) and touch the end with a bit of ferrous metal or a magnet, if the connection is made they are probably ok.
Also look at the side stand switch etc, plugs, the fuel injection does not have a choke as such, the lever on the handle bars is more of a fast idle control.
The key thing to check are the ecu and ignition/ fuel pump relay and the phase position sensors, if you need an ecu I might have one for sale or to plug in to try. Keep us updated...good luck...ian
Ps don’t buy original guzzi position sensor other fit which are a quarter of the price, if it is the ecu expect to pay about £200 at worst.
Also on the ecu is a diagnostic plug, look around that area and you should find the other end to plug in to it (if it’s not already plugged in) this will illuminate the little red led by the hazards switch which will flash in sequence to identify ( possibly, it is Italian) the fault.
Remember. YouTube, wildguzzi, and guzzitech are your friends
 
Hi, if the fuel pump does not hum when you turn the ignition on suspect the relay or ecu, I would suggest you check and clean the cam shaft and crank shaft position sensors, dead simple to do, take one out connect it to a multi meter ( buzzer or light) and touch the end with a bit of ferrous metal or a magnet, if the connection is made they are probably ok.
Also look at the side stand switch etc, plugs, the fuel injection does not have a choke as such, the lever on the handle bars is more of a fast idle control.
The key thing to check are the ecu and ignition/ fuel pump relay and the crank / cam position sensor, if you need an ecu I might have one for sale or to plug in to try. Keep us updated...good luck...ian
Ps don’t buy original guzzi position sensor other fit which are a quarter of the price, if it is the ecu expect to pay about £200 at worst.

Thanks for the suggestions. To add more info, when I turn on the ignition I hear the fuel pump running immediately (I assume it is the fuel pump) for about 5 seconds then it stops - it has always done that exactly the same. It doesn't happen if the side-stand is extended but as soon as the stand is pulled in the pump runs as above - so I don't think it's the side stand switch. The plugs have been replaced in the last 5k and look fine - gaps OK.

If it was the camshaft or crankshaft position sensor would that be consistent with the engine running normally once it has started and starting first time later the same day?

I also wondered if it could be an actual fuel issue - the bike is often not started for a few months at a time - and may only get fresh petrol a couple of times a year - could that be relevant?

I final thought - I took the bike on a long ride last year and when it was quite hot I thought it sounded a bit 'tappety' - I know it has cams rather than tappets but I wondered if a valve could be sticking affecting compression when it's cold. Is that a possibility?
 
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Given the sporadic use, have you been using any kind of fuel stabiliser? With E5 & now E10 the ethanol content allows fuel to attract good old H2O, so water can congregate in the bottom of the tank over time. So it may be worth draining the tank entirely, to see what you have there & or, failing that, trying a good quality fuel system cleaner. I mentioned the pet-cock earlier too, as I seem to recall MG owners having problems with these sticking shut on bikes that only saw occasional use. And, being Italian, one always needs to consider electrical wiring/connectors, the various relay contacts & sensors.

BTW, surely a sticking valve would have very obvious side effects - spitting back, uneven idling from cold. Easy enough to check the clearances & do a compression test if in doubt. Personally I would concentrate on fuelling at this stage.
 
Given the sporadic use, have you been using any kind of fuel stabiliser? With E5 & now E10 the ethanol content allows fuel to attract good old H2O, so water can congregate in the bottom of the tank over time. So it may be worth draining the tank entirely, to see what you have there & or, failing that, trying a good quality fuel system cleaner. I mentioned the pet-cock earlier too, as I seem to recall MG owners having problems with these sticking shut on bikes that only saw occasional use. And, being Italian, one always needs to consider electrical wiring/connectors, the various relay contacts & sensors.

BTW, surely a sticking valve would have very obvious side effects - spitting back, uneven idling from cold. Easy enough to check the clearances & do a compression test if in doubt. Personally I would concentrate on fuelling at this stage.

Thanks again - I wondered about the possibility of water in the fuel and I will follow your advice on that (and use super-unleaded from now on). There are two pet-cocks - one each side - so I doubt if that explains the issue although I did have a fiddle with both of them yesterday when I was having trouble starting the bike.

I have had some previous trouble with electrical relays in the past which required cleaning with wet and dry but these caused a persistent misfire on one cylinder and I wouldn't have thought that type of problem would make it difficult to start but then give no trouble once it had started.

I will check the compression as well.

I value your thoughts - much appreciated.
 
I also wondered if it could be an actual fuel issue - the bike is often not started for a few months at a time - and may only get fresh petrol a couple of times a year - could that be relevant?


Yes! - fuel comprises lots of different hydrocarbons, some lighter, and more volatile than others. The lighter ones do tend to evaporate over time, and the heavier ones will vaporise in a hot engine. Maybe your fuel system is full of stale fuel, which is good enough once the engine is warm?

Drain, refill, fingers crossed. You can add a gallon of whatever you drained off to a 3/4 full tank of new stuff, it doesn’t have to go to waste (but don’t put any water back in the tank!)
 
I think it would be worth cleaning both phase sensors if only to eliminate them, it might be worth fitting a transparent fuel filter. It would also be worth cleaning the main earth wire, and the leads to the starter, and any other ignition connectors, if the starter has any increased resistance it might not leave the battery enough volts to fire the bike up, try to charge the battery next time the bike plays up.

I have the same bike, mine went for periods when it would not start everything pointed to the ecu, so I sent the ecu to Holland they charged me £200 and said it was working and they could not find a fault, I fitted a new wiring harness and sensors …no change.
I put a new ecu problem disappeared, apparently some of the soldered connections in the ecu can ‘fail’ in the right conditions of humidity, then start to work again when the humidity changes…that little episode turned what small amount of hair that had not fell out with stress grey…good look…ian
 
I think it would be worth cleaning both phase sensors if only to eliminate them, it might be worth fitting a transparent fuel filter. It would also be worth cleaning the main earth wire, and the leads to the starter, and any other ignition connectors, if the starter has any increased resistance it might not leave the battery enough volts to fire the bike up, try to charge the battery next time the bike plays up.

I have the same bike, mine went for periods when it would not start everything pointed to the ecu, so I sent the ecu to Holland they charged me £200 and said it was working and they could not find a fault, I fitted a new wiring harness and sensors …no change.
I put a new ecu problem disappeared, apparently some of the soldered connections in the ecu can ‘fail’ in the right conditions of humidity, then start to work again when the humidity changes…that little episode turned what small amount of hair that had not fell out with stress grey…good look…ian

Thanks for the suggestions - where did you source the ECU from and can you recall what it cost? How straightforward was it to fit?

Oddly the bike has started first time every time this week - I'm still hoping it's a fuel problem and intend to drain the tank and put fresh E5 petrol in.

Martin
 
well most things have already been covered.

ride the thing , run some injector cleaner throught it, at least 2 tanks .

relays ? still original ? take them out , smash them with a hammer , replace with Bosch for preference. only buy 5 pin relays.

plug caps ? original ? test them .

break and make every electrical connector you can find .

always use the kill switch to stop the engine .

phase sensors , get a spare , when dead they still test as good.

when you are bored shitless with it , ring Jason on 07977 504 215 .

tell some twat from London sent you.
 
I'm curious, I have never used the kill switch to turn off the engine. I just turn the ignition switch off.
 
I'm curious, I have never used the kill switch to turn off the engine. I just turn the ignition switch off.
Me too, as when a learner i was taught that there's a reason the ignition has big chunky connections;
to withstand the current / heavy use.
Whereas the kill switch had only light weight wires / connectors that could burn out if used to excess, as opposed to the intended "emergency engine stop".

Bullsh*t or true? :nenau

~~
Og the electrophobic
 
I’ve not looked, but I’d bet a pound that the wire to the ignition switch, and thence to the kill switch, and from there to the ignition system is the same size throughout.

You’d hope that both sets of switch contacts would also be rated for the current.

The ignition switch likely has sliding contacts which clean themselves as you turn the key. The kill switch might be similar, or it might be more like points. If it slides, it will clean the contacts as you use it, so using it and keeping it clean is probably a good thing. If the contacts just close, it probably doesn’t matter whether you use it or not.

Cars don’t have kill switches, generally, and I have not heard of switch failure being a big deal.
 
I'm curious, I have never used the kill switch to turn off the engine. I just turn the ignition switch off.

well 1 day you WILL come to a halt because of it.

i was left on the M25 one night, by a kill switch that i was absolutely sure was ok , bike made all the right noises, cranked ...but would not start.

when i worked at P&H , half the Ducati's that came in for no-go , were usually running before the AA man left.
 
Me too, as when a learner i was taught that there's a reason the ignition has big chunky connections;
to withstand the current / heavy use.
Whereas the kill switch had only light weight wires / connectors that could burn out if used to excess, as opposed to the intended "emergency engine stop".

Bullsh*t or true? :nenau

~~
Og the electrophobic

Bullshit , the kill switch normally turns of the power to the ignition .

do you think a manufacturer would use wires that weren't up to the job ?
 
Bullshit , the kill switch normally turns of the power to the ignition .
O.k. :thumb2 you've a lot more 'Real World' experience than i have. Ta for the answer.
.... just one thing though
do you think a manufacturer would use wires that weren't up to the job ?
Um... Guzzi+electrics - i'll say nothing on that one! :augie

Ignition switch is original 30 year old. Removed stripped and cleaned twice in the last 20. :nenau
But as i have dim lights and marginal charging i think the entire wiring may need "attention".:confused: (You'd know better than me)
It has a fairly new reg/rectifier and i replaced the stator... or rotor (fect if i can remember which!:blast ) a few years ago.
Always started easy.

ANYhow - i digress.
Apologies - back to the original topic now. :blush:
 


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