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The HSC on my 2018 was easy to stall without a gazillion revs but the 2021 1250 works very well.
Hill Start Control
- Thread starter StewMcGrew
- Start date
I have a 1250 GS, my buddy has 1200 GS and the difference in the performance of the Hillstart Assist is night and day. I often wondered if the the 'trigger point' to release the brake pressure was maybe the ABS sensor on the 1200 having to seeing more than 1 notch on the reluctor ring pass it (thus explaining the plenty revs to get it to release).
On the 1250 maybe they just use the clutch switch to release the brake pressure like it does for the cruise control cancelling ?
The difference is the 1250 works smoothly and the other you have to rev the tits off it and force the wheel to turn slightly ?
Knutt will probably be able to shed some light on this phenomenon.
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On the 1250 maybe they just use the clutch switch to release the brake pressure like it does for the cruise control cancelling ?
The difference is the 1250 works smoothly and the other you have to rev the tits off it and force the wheel to turn slightly ?
Knutt will probably be able to shed some light on this phenomenon.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I have it on my 2017 GS but dont use it.
You have to rev so much people turn their heads to look at you lol
its the only way to guarantee it wont stall the bike.
I was in Clitheroe at the top of a steep hill with the wife on the back, plenty of revs and pulled a wheelie from the junction.
made my mate behind laugh, but cant say i was too impressed.... the wife wasnt lol
Since then its the old fashioned way on the back break for me, more control
You have to rev so much people turn their heads to look at you lol
its the only way to guarantee it wont stall the bike.
I was in Clitheroe at the top of a steep hill with the wife on the back, plenty of revs and pulled a wheelie from the junction.
made my mate behind laugh, but cant say i was too impressed.... the wife wasnt lol
Since then its the old fashioned way on the back break for me, more control
StewMcGrew
Registered user
I think I'll be switching it off and going back to normal use
ffs its not difficult. you can use it if you want or if not simply dab the rear brake and it switches off leaving you free to hold with your strength / clutch / brake or whatever you like!
Barry
Barry
Thank you for the vote of confidence
According to the Riders Manual Engineerings details, the HSC is part of the ABS system, where the required brake pressure is adjusted according to what is needed (i.e more pressure in a hill). Further, in order to release, the system aims for holding the brake pressure until there is enough power on the rear wheel to prevent the bike from sliding backwards when the brake is released.
The details of how ABS senses this is not mentioned. However, the bike is equipped with a tilt sensor as well as an acceleration sensor, and these parameters, combined with input from the ABS ring help the system to release at the right moment.
Needless to say, there is software involved, and apparently, the software for the 1250 has been improved compared to the 1200.
On a personal notice, it seems like the system works the best when the rider operates the clutch/throttle smoothly, without any abrupt movements.
And this makes sense, as the software expects a gradual input for all parameters. Since there is no torque sensor on the driveshaft, the only way the ABS know that there is sufficient power added is by sensing a beginning forward motion.
It goes without saying that takeoff in a hill will require more power than when on a level surface, as the power has to be strong enough to both move the bike forward as well as override the brake pressure keeping the bike from moving backwards..
knut has it in one. The Hill Start Assist on my much heavier 1600 GT works a treat.
I did watch some hapless fellow on a 1250, rolling backwards down a steep Alpine slope, twice or three times. His mistake was to pull on the front brake lever, releasing the HSA before the system had done its thing. Leave the brakes alone (the bike isn’t going anywhere), give it some rev’s and let the clutch out. The brakes will release on their own and the bike will move forward, with no more rider input required than that. It is not very difficult.
I did watch some hapless fellow on a 1250, rolling backwards down a steep Alpine slope, twice or three times. His mistake was to pull on the front brake lever, releasing the HSA before the system had done its thing. Leave the brakes alone (the bike isn’t going anywhere), give it some rev’s and let the clutch out. The brakes will release on their own and the bike will move forward, with no more rider input required than that. It is not very difficult.
you are very correct biggest problem, many not practice enough to see what happens, or stay on flat roads, here in netherlands I must go across border to enjoy HSC
On mine you have to double pull the front brake quickly to engage the hill start brake.
otherwise it just acts normal.
Now the worse part is, sometimes you double pull and it doesnt kick in, you roll back, and try again
its a bit of a fiddle.... well actually its crap.
Try just pulling it tight and holding once.
On my 1250, you don't have to "double pull", just pull the hand brake, and without releasing, pull a bit more - the nice green light comes on. If you'e on a hill and the green light isn't on, and you let go, you'll roll back.
you can release it before you pull away, or if you want to roll back, or whatever, by a further firm brake application
or you can just drive off, with a few more revs than you would if you hadn't used it. I've not stalled yet.
And you still have the option of doing it the "old" way.
Try it. It works, it's helpful, it's not diicult at all. Neither is it obligatory, it's simply another tool in the toolbox. It's not crap in my experience.
Beware of the yellow light. I think when the stand is down or you turn the engine off, the green light will go yellow, the hill hold is NOT working.
I don't think it waits for a wheel to turn to release, I think it detects the weight transfer, but that's a guess.
you can release it before you pull away, or if you want to roll back, or whatever, by a further firm brake application
or you can just drive off, with a few more revs than you would if you hadn't used it. I've not stalled yet.
And you still have the option of doing it the "old" way.
Try it. It works, it's helpful, it's not diicult at all. Neither is it obligatory, it's simply another tool in the toolbox. It's not crap in my experience.
Beware of the yellow light. I think when the stand is down or you turn the engine off, the green light will go yellow, the hill hold is NOT working.
I don't think it waits for a wheel to turn to release, I think it detects the weight transfer, but that's a guess.
Just as note, the hill start on my 2020 GS has developed a habit of releasing itself. The light just goes out and the brake releases.
Done it quite a few times since 12K service last month. 1st time it took me by surprise as it is random when it does it....now I am ready for it
It is going into dealer for them to check
Done it quite a few times since 12K service last month. 1st time it took me by surprise as it is random when it does it....now I am ready for it
It is going into dealer for them to check
Think there's difference between HSC and HSC pro. With HSC you need to pull the brake lever harder to engage it. with this I find it sometimes doesn't always engage and I need to pull again. With HSC pro, it comes on with less pressure after being held for 1 second on an incline. If you set HSC pro to manual, it reverts back to standard HSC.
At least I think this is how it works, seems to on my 2020 TE anyway.
At least I think this is how it works, seems to on my 2020 TE anyway.
It is that easy.
I'm glad someone else has come to the same conclusion as me that the clutch microswitch is somehow involved in the brake pressure release when using hill hold.
The 1250 does appear to release seamlessly better than the 1200, the side stand microswitch also has involvement in the circuit too as mentioned in an earlier post the TFT light goes from green to yellow with side stand lowering presumably so hill hold can't be used as an electric parking brake if the bike is switched off whilst activated.
This subject obviously needs further investigation/discussion, preferably from a person with an inquisitive mind and a brain the size of a small planet... Knutk immediately springs to mind, the collective would appreciate you to start turning over stones and see what crawls out.... at first light.
It's 3.30 am and I'm being encouraged to go back to sleep now, my wife says this forum proves I'm mentally ill (she's probably right as usual)
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
The 1250 does appear to release seamlessly better than the 1200, the side stand microswitch also has involvement in the circuit too as mentioned in an earlier post the TFT light goes from green to yellow with side stand lowering presumably so hill hold can't be used as an electric parking brake if the bike is switched off whilst activated.
This subject obviously needs further investigation/discussion, preferably from a person with an inquisitive mind and a brain the size of a small planet... Knutk immediately springs to mind, the collective would appreciate you to start turning over stones and see what crawls out.... at first light.
It's 3.30 am and I'm being encouraged to go back to sleep now, my wife says this forum proves I'm mentally ill (she's probably right as usual)
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Regarding the clutch switches:
As you know, there are two of them. The first one engage when you barely touch the lever, and it will disengage the cruise control. In most cases the switch will make contact at such an early stage that the clutch still remains engaged.
The next switch will engage when the clutch lever is all the way in, and this allows for starting the engine when in gear. The switch is adjusted in such a manner that it ensures a total clutch release.
Hence, relying of any of these two switches would be a bad idea. Th CC release will engage way too late for a smooth takeoff, and the in-gear-start bypass switch will engage way too early...
As you know, there are two of them. The first one engage when you barely touch the lever, and it will disengage the cruise control. In most cases the switch will make contact at such an early stage that the clutch still remains engaged.
The next switch will engage when the clutch lever is all the way in, and this allows for starting the engine when in gear. The switch is adjusted in such a manner that it ensures a total clutch release.
Hence, relying of any of these two switches would be a bad idea. Th CC release will engage way too late for a smooth takeoff, and the in-gear-start bypass switch will engage way too early...
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