Off-road route creation

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Whilst BaseCamp arguably remains the best ‘off-road’ route creation software, I wonder if this website might help some bods.

https://brouter.m11n.de/#map=19/50.04740/4.31807/standard&profile=mtb-zossebart-hard

I suggest it only in as much as it seems to allow routing along recognised footpaths, bicycle tracks and, seemingly, anything that is marked in OpenStreetMaps.

For example, I got it to route me into and around the car park in Chimay, which came up in another thread, and along the (blue RAVel) bicycle track which I know runs along the disused railway line.

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I haven’t yet tried to export the routes into anything else.
 
I have now exported a GPX route from the website from my iPad, via Airdrop, into my phone.

I have successfully open the route in Garmin Drive and BMW Connected app’s and got it into my XT.

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OK, I’ll accept that it doesn’t appear to support riding off across open fields and deserts but at least it will allow routing along recognised ‘tracks’, even if (as in the case of a bicycle path) you are not meant to hoon down them. I guess if anyone really wants to navigate across a true desert, they’ll not need the help of UKGSer to find a navigation device and software.

It would though work, as in my simple example, to get someone right to the front of the Casino restaurant in Chimay. You could then do all sorts of sexy things, like setting ‘stop over’ times at the restaurant.

PS I think there is some sort of link-up between this website and Kurviger, as some bods appear to be swapping code to rewrite algorithms, which is way beyond my pay grade.
 
What I guess would be really trick is if someone could produce a routing tool that allowed bods to click on the tiny square cells in ‘Any three words’ and create a route that way. You could then ride anywhere in the world….. including over the waves of the Pacific, tides and winds notwithstanding.
 
What I guess would be really trick is if someone could produce a routing tool that allowed bods to click on the tiny square cells in ‘Any three words’ and create a route that way. You could then ride anywhere in the world….. including over the waves of the Pacific, tides and winds notwithstanding.

There’s a few that do this.

BRrouter is the router used in others apps such as Locus.

Also outdoor active does the same, but none of them distinguish trails legal for motorbikes from pedal bike trails or even walking trails.

They can be handy though, as long as you have a map with the legal routes in front of you so you can correct the router. Saves drawing in everything manually.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thank you.

I saw a reference to Locus in the blurb on the Kurviger forum, where I’d tripped over the BRrouter. Other than the odd goat track, I don’t go off-road, though I do sometimes need to fill in some gaps where BaseCamp won’t let me route a certain way. I can usually fill in a gap by switching BaseCsmp into ‘off-road’ mode and build a route that way, as a sort of hybrid. But if I can do little pieces in say, BRrouter and paste them in, it might work better.

What is clear and as you said, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of reliable off-road route plotting software out there and all but none that differentiates between legal and non-legal roads / tracks. A paper map still has its uses and BaseCamp, too.
 
Of course you could always drop a few relevant waypoints and be done with it :D
 
Of course you could always drop a few relevant waypoints and be done with it :D

Thank you.

Indeed so, hence the reference to BaseCamp, still often regarded as the best mainstream ‘off-road’ route creation tool, along with the comment that it’s reasonably easy create mix-n-match hybrid routes in BaseCamp, too. But, as you might have seen from other posts in the forum, some bods hate BaseCamp with a passion usually only reserved for child molesters and (worse) people on the phone whilst driving and do look for off-the-shelf app’s to make off-road routes, sometimes to use with their phone. This one at least seems to do some of the job. When and if you ever hear of something better whilst out on the trails, do be sure to share, particularly if the app can differentiate between legal and illegal off-road paths which (as Berin pointed out) seems to be a problem, requiring the help of a traditional paper map.

There’s a post in the Spain Travel sub-section about Adventure Country Tracks which, with a bit of surfing around, will find https://www.adventurecountrytracks.com/ where free GPS routes are available, though Spain does not seem to be listed yet. This would seen to indicate that there is a demand for this type of product, as it (understandably) fills the “Got a route, mate?” request that we hear so often. Having some reliable software so that bods can create their own (if they can be arsed) would seem a natural enough progression.

There seems to be a strange reluctance amongst knowledgeable ‘off-road’ riders to openly share gps (or sometimes even route information) as if these need to be closely guarded secrets, known only to the privileged few. That used to be the case for conventional ‘on-road’ riding, too. Someone somewhere will no doubt find the key to unlocking the ‘off-road’ safe, that’s for certain. I can only start to imagine the moaning from some quarters when it does happen :D but the genie will be out of the bottle and there’ll be no putting it back.


PS As much as anything else, the opening post and subsequent thread is designed to show that the off-the-shelf Garmin Drive and BMW Connected apps will run bespoke ‘off-road’ GPS routes / tracks, if people want to create their own or share them. It might be handy to know for some bods, especially as they are reasonably popular apps, I guess. On the other hand, it was also me mucking around with the app’s and my phone, finding out how and if they work together, as I am very new to this whole app, phone and TFT screen malarkey.

:beerjug:
 
There seems to be a strange reluctance amongst knowledgeable ‘off-road’ riders to openly share gps (or sometimes even route information) as if these need to be closely guarded secrets, known only to the privileged few.

That used to be the case for conventional ‘on-road’ riding, too.

Someone somewhere will no doubt find the key to unlocking the ‘off-road’ safe, that’s for certain.

I can only start to imagine the moaning from some quarters when it does happen :D but the genie will be out of the bottle and there’ll be no putting it back.



:beerjug:

It’s probably because where there’s rights, there is also responsibility

Off-road routes are sensitive by nature of the terrain and views

Many are in ‘cherished’ National Parks all over the world and other ‘eyes’ are watching recreational vehicle users

The info is all out there - it’s a case of searching it out and many numpties (more often the irresponsible ones) can’t/won’t/cba to do the donkey work

Up here in the Dales recently, we are seeing many wooden 5 bar gates being smashed to smithereens & off the gate posts, by irresponsible 4wd owners and their bull bars, just because they can’t be arsed to get out and open them

So, how does that look to other Park users like walkers, cyclists or farmers who have to fork out £200 for a new gate, only to have it smashed off its hinges within 2-3 weeks?

No wonder there is valid reluctance
 
Happy new year, JB.

Your post makes some interesting points.

There is no direct or guaranteed causal relationship between the creation or sharing of a GPS (or any) route across the wilds and damage. In exactly the same way as there is no direct relationship between someone recommending a hotel on UKGSer, someone the finding the recommendation, staying there and behaving like a bikermate yob to the annoyance of the proprietor and the other guests. I would agree though that some of the requests for routes (on road and off) are sometimes - not always - nothing more than laziness and / or a lack of imagination. In other words, some people (despite their professed rugged self reliance and balls out independence) really do want to be spoon fed. Or maybe they just want to have a good time, doing something that they are not too experienced at? Who knows.

I don’t though think that you need to become the self-appointed guardian of all social behaviour and the countryside or you’ll go mad.

Clever software will, I guess, emerge that will be able to near enough differentiate between trails that are legal for a vehicle to use and those that are illegal. This might be a good thing as it might stop less careful and less respectful users of the countryside taking tracks that are illegal to use. The information exists anyway on decent maps and / or in other responsible publications, it is just a question of time / demand that sees the paper world joined to the digital world. That it won’t necessarily stop some or all yobbish behaviour on legal usage tracks, is another matter entirely.

:beerjug:
 
What I guess would be really trick is if someone could produce a routing tool that allowed bods to click on the tiny square cells in ‘Any three words’ and create a route that way. You could then ride anywhere in the world….. including over the waves of the Pacific, tides and winds notwithstanding.

I stumbled across by accident , a few weeks ago, that 'What 3 words' will send a destination directly to my XT via the Garmin Drive app. Strange thing is that as soon as the XT gets a signal it starts routing to the destination.
 
I stumbled across by accident , a few weeks ago, that 'What 3 words' will send a destination directly to my XT via the Garmin Drive app. Strange thing is that as soon as the XT gets a signal it starts routing to the destination.

That’s a useful thing to know, thank you.

The countryside and the Pacific will now be ruined.

PS My iPhone is seemingly unable to link ‘What 3 words’ to Garmin Drive or the BMW Connect app’s but it does link it to Pocket Earth Pro and some other app’s. Are you using an Android phone, perhaps?
 
Happy new year, JB.

Your post makes some interesting points.

There is no direct or guaranteed causal relationship between the creation or sharing of a GPS (or any) route across the wilds and damage. In exactly the same way as there is no direct relationship between someone recommending a hotel on UKGSer, someone the finding the recommendation, staying there and behaving like a bikermate yob to the annoyance of the proprietor and the other guests. I would agree though that some of the requests for routes (on road and off) are sometimes - not always - nothing more than laziness and / or a lack of imagination. In other words, some people (despite their professed rugged self reliance and balls out independence) really do want to be spoon fed. Or maybe they just want to have a good time, doing something that they are not too experienced at? Who knows.

I don’t though think that you need to become the self-appointed guardian of all social behaviour and the countryside or you’ll go mad.

Clever software will, I guess, emerge that will be able to near enough differentiate between trails that are legal for a vehicle to use and those that are illegal. This might be a good thing as it might stop less careful and less respectful users of the countryside taking tracks that are illegal to use. The information exists anyway on decent maps and / or in other responsible publications, it is just a question of time / demand that sees the paper world joined to the digital world. That it won’t necessarily stop some or all yobbish behaviour on legal usage tracks, is another matter entirely.

:beerjug:

Jezus!

You begin by admitting JB makes some interesting points then continue to dismiss them by making irrelevant comparisons :D

I think the point you're really missing is the difference between legal routes and those that are sensitive or contentious and this is a distinction that is understandably overlooked as it's not part of your world.

On a personal note you may have guessed I'll never spoon feed routes otherwise but those who've travelled with me hopefully understand why and it's not just the sharing of routes.
I regularly take groups out on behalf of commercial set ups and there's always 'special lanes' I avoid if I believe them to be sensitive but they still have a great ride!

So, please don't take this as an attack on your development of GPS use (for which we all aknowledge your expertise) but on the other hand it doesnt help by dismissing important points raised by those who very much have regular dealings with responsible/ sensitive trail riding :)
 
That’s a useful thing to know, thank you.

The countryside will now be ruined.

PS My iPhone is seemingly unable to link ‘What 3 words’ to Garmin Drive but it does link it to Pocket Earth Pro.

PS. I await another sarcastic reply :D
 
I am not dismissing them, I am simply putting forward a possible alternative view in order to encourage some debate on the subject. Sometimes you have to be a bit provocative, just to get a response.

Of course I am fully aware of the damage that inconsiderate users of the countryside cause, my sister being married to a farmer in rural Warwickshire, after all. Indeed, his farm suffers from yobbish ‘off-roaders’ in 4x4’s, on motorbikes (yup, them too, though JB only highlighted four wheelers in his piece, which maybe indicates nothing more than a bias) and now, increasingly, on quads. That we also have quads and bikes hurtling around the streets, green spaces and small pathways of central East London is another matter entirely, though it does indicate that yobbish behaviour and its effects are not, by any means, limited to the wilds.

Google have recently updated their maps and now show what might appear to be roads that cross-cross his and his neighbours’ farms, which are (deliberately or by accident) now being taken up by the off-road brigade, though they are plainly not legal, so I can relate to the problem very easily. Google has agreed to address the issue, in a similar way that they will (if requested) blank out or obscure some properties.

The world, whether we like it or not, is changing. Magazines such as Adventure Bike Rider used to just carry words to describe their rides. They now sometimes carry maps of the routes; sometimes quite vague (poor, even) but sometimes quite detailed. Why they vary in quality I am not sure, not least as good quality mapping is easy to come by in the publishing world. It is only a matter of time before the magazine if it hasn’t already (I don’t subscribe to it) makes very accurate GPS tracks available, just as the German on-road magazines (which I subscribe to) do *, sometimes free and sometimes for a nominal charge of a couple of quid. I think this proves that you can’t always fight progress, whichever direction it takes. What you / we (and I include myself in this) can do is seek to educate….. at least those that are prepared to listen.

You, JB, Greg M and I am sure lots of others do do good work encouraging / helping bods to enjoy off-road riding, up to and including sections that are technically difficult / challenging and others that would be easy (in relative terms) for anyone who can ride a motorcycle. In the same way that Sgt Bilko helps and encourages bods who want to ride into and across North America. I think it’s great that you all do. Long may it continue. Don’t take a bit of prodding with a fairly blunt stick (carefully sourced from a managed tree) too seriously, please.

:beerjug:


* They now and again have off-road articles using, I assume, legal roads. These very often have very good maps and good quality GPS files. I put them up from time to time in the Travel section, largely dicatated as to whether I (how modest is that) think they look any good or not. It helps to address the requests we do see for off-road ideas, sometimes spanning the whole of France and Spain…. But hey, we get those from the strictly ‘on-road’ brigade too, along with requests for a detailed long range weather forecast :D
 
Interestingly or not, the Warwickshire police’s advice to my brother-in-law was not to get out of his vehicle when encountering bods illegally using his farm as a playground. This stems from a farmer being beaten up by a group of blokes on motorbikes when the farmer in his late 60’s sought to reason with them. I heard this tale only this Christmas, so it is current.

He and his cousin, who farms next door, did though chase one yob into a very deep ditch. The yob probably soiled himself and apparently begged not to be shot. His mates had (naturally enough) fecked off, probably back to their yobbish lives in Banbury, leaving the yob to his fate. Happy days.

PS The Warwickshire police do not give two hoots for rural affairs.
 
I am not dismissing them, I am simply putting forward a possible alternative view in order to encourage some debate on the subject. Sometimes you have to be a bit provocative, just to get a response.

Of course I am fully aware of the damage that inconsiderate users of the countryside cause, my sister being married to a farmer in rural Warwickshire, after all. Indeed, his farm suffers from yobbish ‘off-roaders’ in 4x4’s, on motorbikes (yup, them too, though JB only highlighted four wheelers in his piece, which maybe indicates nothing more than a bias) and now, increasingly, on quads. That we also have quads and bikes hurtling around the streets, green spaces and small pathways of central East London is another matter entirely, though it does indicate that yobbish behaviour and its effects are not, by any means, limited to the wilds.

Google have recently updated their maps and now show what might appear to be roads that cross-cross his and his neighbours’ farms, which are (deliberately or by accident) now being taken up by the off-road brigade, though they are plainly not legal, so I can relate to the problem very easily. Google has agreed to address the issue, in a similar way that they will (if requested) blank out or obscure some properties.

The world, whether we like it or not, is changing. Magazines such as Adventure Bike Rider used to just carry words to describe their rides. They now sometimes carry maps of the routes; sometimes quite vague (poor, even) but sometimes quite detailed. Why they vary in quality I am not sure, not least as good quality mapping is easy to come by in the publishing world. It is only a matter of time before the magazine if it hasn’t already (I don’t subscribe to it) makes very accurate GPS tracks available, just as the German on-road magazines (which I subscribe to) do *, sometimes free and sometimes for a nominal charge of a couple of quid. I think this proves that you can’t always fight progress, whichever direction it takes. What you / we (and I include myself in this) can do is seek to educate….. at least those that are prepared to listen.

You, JB, Greg M and I am sure lots of others do do good work encouraging / helping bods to enjoy off-road riding, up to and including sections that are technically difficult / challenging and others that would be easy (in relative terms) for anyone who can ride a motorcycle. In the same way that Sgt Bilko helps and encourages bods who want to ride into and across North America. I think it’s great that you all do. Long may it continue. Don’t take a bit of prodding with a fairly blunt stick (carefully sourced from a managed tree) too seriously, please.

:beerjug:


* They now and again have off-road articles using, I assume, legal roads. These very often have very good maps and good quality GPS files. I put them up from time to time in the Travel section, largely dicatated as to whether I (how modest is that) think they look any good or not. It helps to address the requests we do see for off-road ideas, sometimes spanning the whole of France and Spain…. But hey, we get those from the strictly ‘on-road’ brigade too, along with requests for a detailed long range weather forecast :D

No 4x4 bias here !!!

Only those in a 4 wheel vehicle could have smashed the wooden gates, probably with a bull bar

A quad or bike rider would be disfigured if they charged into a shut gate and smashed it up

Common sense tells the community it’s a 4x4
However trail cameras are now set to identify the culprits and so the farmer can bill them


We, as the TRF local group are funding 1 or 2 new gates at £200/gate, for the farmer.. out of our own funds - Money that could go to charity instead & not gate repairs from inconsiderate trail users (who would the first to call air ambulance if they were in trouble)

In December we donated £2000 to Great North Air Ambulance, monies raised by a trail riding weekend showing other bods (from countrywide) the trails in North Yorkshire
 
Can you not get steel gates?

and snipers?
 
The pikey fraternity steal gates. There again, they steal anything that is not bolted down, welded shut or wired to the National Grid.
 
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