EWS non starter

landmarkjohn

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2008 R1200GS. EWS on the dash. No neutral light. Dip beam comes on with ignition even though no start. GS 911 cannot connect to module.
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So do I buy a new ring antenna and try that or start stripping it down looking for broken wires first? All suggestions appreciated.
 
Are you sure its not the neutral sensor? Push the clutch full and start fhe engine

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Are you sure its not the neutral sensor? Push the clutch full and start fhe engine

Pretty sure it's to do with EWS as displayed on the dash. I am mulling over shelling out €60 or so for a new ring antenna before I start tearing into the loom looking for broken wire.

If anyone could point me to a wiring diagram with some pinouts I could test for continuity..... kinda go about it a bit scientific like:D:aidan
 
Pretty sure it's to do with EWS as displayed on the dash. I am mulling over shelling out €60 or so for a new ring antenna before I start tearing into the loom looking for broken wire.

If anyone could point me to a wiring diagram with some pinouts I could test for continuity..... kinda go about it a bit scientific like:D:aidan
I’ve got a spare ring antennae if you want to borrow it.
 
Pretty sure it's to do with EWS as displayed on the dash. I am mulling over shelling out €60 or so for a new ring antenna before I start tearing into the loom looking for broken wire.

If anyone could point me to a wiring diagram with some pinouts I could test for continuity..... kinda go about it a bit scientific like:D:aidan

i thought that and bought a new ring antenna, it wasnt the antenna ;)

Still had to strip the bike and fix the loom lol

Given the age of the bike, the loom is my bet,

did you try the diagnostic checks in my post??
 
did you try the diagnostic checks in my post??

Yes I have done a bit of wiggling the bars about and trying on full lock left and then right. And I tried known good 12.8 V battery. That's all so far, it's still well down on the list to do, stuff keeps jumping the queue.:rolleyes:
 
Well it's not the ring antenna!

So into the loom I must go :mad:

I've got to say I'm not impressed about this fault. Failing final drive I could handle (fingers crossed), it's a wear item and you might get some warning if you keep a tight eye. Shocks get tired but they're not going to leave you on the side of the road. But wires breaking in the loom on a bike that has never had rough treatment? Park it up and come back to a non starter?

At least it happened when garaged. I would be doubly unimpressed if on tour! Mini rant over :aidan .... just thinking, this is a 2008 bike, I can't imagine what I would be like if I was left stranded on a €25K 1250 as has happened to bods!
 

No. Research tells me that the nature of this fault is that the ring antenna is only required at startup. So you can have a broken wire while riding and it won’t become apparent until you need to start the bike again.

Or it can break when you do a couple of full lock manoeuvres positioning the bike in the garage. I believe the mice to be innocent in this case.
 
No. Research tells me that the nature of this fault is that the ring antenna is only required at startup. So you can have a broken wire while riding and it won’t become apparent until you need to start the bike again.

Or it can break when you do a couple of full lock manoeuvres positioning the bike in the garage. I believe the mice to be innocent in this case.

When diagnosing computerized machinery, keep in mind what the warning light tells you.
An EWS warning light claims no signal from Ring Antenna.
Fair enough. But then the diagnostics goes on to tell you: No connection from the controller. Meaning the controller is either busted or not getting power. And this is the very same controller that controlls the EWS antenna. Hence the lack of an internal "EWS OK" signal from the controller is caused by a controller issue, not an antenna issue. After all, the EWS warning is set up in such a way that the warning is lit up until the controller confirms it's ok.
 
2008 R1200GS. EWS on the dash. No neutral light. Dip beam comes on with ignition even though no start. GS 911 cannot connect to module.

EWS on the Dash: Controlled by the BMS. Hence, lack of 'EWS Ok' signal from BMS.

No neutral: The gearposition is transmitted by a pot.meter to the BMS. If no power to BMS, no neutral signal to display.

Dip Beam comes on, even no start: No engine-off signal from BMS, i.e no command to ZFE to not turn the light on.

The dip-beam on may perhaps not make sense, but look upon it this way: You drive along at night, with ligts on, and all of a sudden, the BMS fails to communicate with the ZFE. If the system was wired in such a way that the ZFE would need a positive "Engine Running" signal from BMS to leave the lights on, then a BMS failure would leave you in the dark. On the other hand, if you design it in such a way the the lights stay on unless the ZFE receives a positive "Engine OFF" command in order to turn the lights off, a BMS issue, even if it will shut down the engine, will at least allow you to keep the lights on until you safely can turn the bike to the side of the road on stop.

So you see, it's all conneced, in it all makes sense, eventually ;)

Good luck with your search :okay
 
It can also be the case that the ECU is not booting up. For whatever reason that may be (there are quite a few). It is particularly suspicious if you are not getting the gear position / if your lights don't dip during startup procedure.

But, before you get into that... you can easily test the continuity from Ring Antenna connector to the ECU plug. I cannot remember the pinouts off the top of my head, but if you search my posts, you should be able to find the pin numbers. [Let me know if you are struggling and I'll look them up]. It will be a lot simpler to get a cheap multimeter (with continuity test/beep) and some pins/crocodile clips than to cut into the harness. It is also not unheard of to have a broken conductor (wire) inside a perfectly healthy looking insulator (sheathing) so tracking the fault manually can get very tedious.

Try to be methodical. Test one thing at the time; If you do have continuity, make sure you move the handlebars lock-to-lock as you're testing to make sure it is not an intermittent fault.

Good luck.
 
EWS on the Dash: Controlled by the BMS. Hence, lack of 'EWS Ok' signal from BMS.

No neutral: The gearposition is transmitted by a pot.meter to the BMS. If no power to BMS, no neutral signal to display.

Dip Beam comes on, even no start: No engine-off signal from BMS, i.e no command to ZFE to not turn the light on.

The dip-beam on may perhaps not make sense, but look upon it this way: You drive along at night, with ligts on, and all of a sudden, the BMS fails to communicate with the ZFE. If the system was wired in such a way that the ZFE would need a positive "Engine Running" signal from BMS to leave the lights on, then a BMS failure would leave you in the dark. On the other hand, if you design it in such a way the the lights stay on unless the ZFE receives a positive "Engine OFF" command in order to turn the lights off, a BMS issue, even if it will shut down the engine, will at least allow you to keep the lights on until you safely can turn the bike to the side of the road on stop.

So you see, it's all conneced, in it all makes sense, eventually ;)

Good luck with your search :okay

Thanks, multi quoted you to keep you in the loop (i.e. I'm not out of the woods yet :D )

It can also be the case that the ECU is not booting up. For whatever reason that may be (there are quite a few). It is particularly suspicious if you are not getting the gear position / if your lights don't dip during startup procedure.

But, before you get into that... you can easily test the continuity from Ring Antenna connector to the ECU plug. I cannot remember the pinouts off the top of my head, but if you search my posts, you should be able to find the pin numbers. [Let me know if you are struggling and I'll look them up]. It will be a lot simpler to get a cheap multimeter (with continuity test/beep) and some pins/crocodile clips than to cut into the harness. It is also not unheard of to have a broken conductor (wire) inside a perfectly healthy looking insulator (sheathing) so tracking the fault manually can get very tedious.

Try to be methodical. Test one thing at the time; If you do have continuity, make sure you move the handlebars lock-to-lock as you're testing to make sure it is not an intermittent fault.

Good luck.

Thanks up to now. Update:

Tried replacement Ring Antenna, no good. Replacement RA was 100% good as I tried it on another working bike.

Continuity tested 4 wires from RA, all OK. Have not tried Voltage Drop Test, trying to work out the mechanics of doing that.

So with symptoms of EWS, dip beam on, no gear indicator and GS911 not connecting to module I am starting to steer towards failed BMSKP (ECU?). There was another thread here by glenn.1 and he had same symptoms and had to replace ECU.

Two questions:

Are there any tests I can do or indications that confirm the BMSPK is bad?

Mechanics of Drop Voltage Test to prove the wiring in this scenario (pictures if possible, not asking much I know :D )
 
Thanks, multi quoted you to keep you in the loop (i.e. I'm not out of the woods yet :D )



Thanks up to now. Update:

Tried replacement Ring Antenna, no good. Replacement RA was 100% good as I tried it on another working bike.

Continuity tested 4 wires from RA, all OK. Have not tried Voltage Drop Test, trying to work out the mechanics of doing that.

So with symptoms of EWS, dip beam on, no gear indicator and GS911 not connecting to module I am starting to steer towards failed BMSKP (ECU?). There was another thread here by glenn.1 and he had same symptoms and had to replace ECU.

Two questions:

Are there any tests I can do or indications that confirm the BMSPK is bad?

Mechanics of Drop Voltage Test to prove the wiring in this scenario (pictures if possible, not asking much I know :D )

I am afraid that there are three ways I know; and neither is particularly easy: The "simple one" is to find a similar bike and try to connect your ECU to see if it works. The "expensive one" is to take it to the dealer to connect the diags and tell you if it is making a connection. And the last one is to connect the ECU pins to a bench-rig that supplies 12V and gives access to diagnostics via the pins that usually go to OBD socket.(not expensive but a royal PITA to put together). You will need cables and connectors, 12V+ supply and be decent at soldering. The last one is to send it to someone on t'internet that does this type of work commercially. not easy to find reliable and reasonable is what I'd say.

However, all of them are a variation of what you already did - i.e. connect the GS911 and try to get it to make a logical connection to the ECU.

Can't really help with the Drop voltage test. With all the symptoms you have, I think the chances are that the ECU is not booting up... Sorry.
 
Just a couple of basic things, have you disconnected the battery for a few minutes. The BMS-K and the ZFE ecu`s both have live feeds from the battery which are not disconnected by the ignition switch. To complete a cold reboot you need to disconnect the battery.
When continuity testing wiring looms it is better to use a 5 amp load rather than a multimeter, a 5 amp load such as a 60 watt bulb and 12 volt battery will often break down a weak wire or connection that a multimeter will not show up.
Obviously only use a load continuity tester when both ends of the loom being tested are disconnected. NOT when back pinning.
 
Computer components in vehicles does generally have a low failure rate.
Thus, the suggestion made in post #2 should be considered.

As allready suggested, the focus should be to sort out why the BMS does not respond. This means that diagnostics alone will not be sufficient to solve the issue.
Installing a BMS from another vehicle will not give an imediate response. The new BMS needs to be identified to the other cmponents before it will work properly (but it's existance will be recognized with proper diagnostic tools)

It needs to be established if the BMS does not respond due to a failure, or if it does not respond due to lack of power.

If no electric diagram is available, I think now is the time to get hold of one, as well as invest in some sort of diagnostic equipment. Even if this will mean spending money, keep in mind that the cost of an hour or two of shop time will buy lots of tools...

Also, keep in mind that lots of the signals in the wiring harness are 5V signals. Thus, if injecting test-voltage to the wiring, it needs to be DAMN SURE that all ends to the tested cable are disconnected from ANY of the other components of the bike. Otherwise, this way of testing may become VERY EXPENSIVE.
 
Does your bike have the alarm ?

Yes it does.

Just a couple of basic things, have you disconnected the battery for a few minutes. The BMS-K and the ZFE ecu`s both have live feeds from the battery which are not disconnected by the ignition switch. To complete a cold reboot you need to disconnect the battery.
When continuity testing wiring looms it is better to use a 5 amp load rather than a multimeter, a 5 amp load such as a 60 watt bulb and 12 volt battery will often break down a weak wire or connection that a multimeter will not show up.
Obviously only use a load continuity tester when both ends of the loom being tested are disconnected. NOT when back pinning.

Yes battery has been disconnected for long periods (weeks, days, hours while I root about). I am disconnecting battery as routine.
 


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