BaseCamp routes creating straight lines in my Nav V

Ok Rustle first thing plug your satnav into your pc let the pc find it, open express if it not set to open on device insertion.

2 you should be greeted with a screen like the pic 1 below, you can see my 550 has been recognised by it having a green dot, if your unit is not there try and add unit if it is there good.

3 now just left mouse click your unit that is displayed and you will then see a screen similar to pic 2 below, left mouse click view details and you should see something like pic 3.

4 Select installation options you should see a screen like pic 4 select the option you want and hopefully once you select download it will download it to your pc if that is what you selected.

Please note i selected computer and device in the last pic

Did what you said after faffing about trying to get the PC to see the Nav 5. Eventually it did connect but I don't know why or how. I have the screens you suggest but not the final one where I can choose what to update. I get one which offers me the chance to reinstall the map on the device and, below that the chance to update the maps on my computer. I did both - the satnav one took very little time as I did that the other day. The other one took about 30mins. I have the same maps on the Nav as you'd expect. I have the same on Express and I have a 2022 version instead of the 2021 version on the PC. Looking promising. Bearing in mind the route was prepared in the previous version on Basecamp, I downloaded the Spain test route. Same gobbledegook. I re-saved as "curvy roads" then back to "faster" and it's perfect. Another thing, after updating all the maps, the yellow box proclaiming that the route is being modified because "different map" etc is still there.

Question - if I did as Richard suggests and create some more test routes, now that the maps are all in synch, does anyone think the test routes would now work. I haven't the time to try right now unfortunately. I am still baffled that UK routes have always worked perfectly while France/Spain do not.

Leedude, I'm sorry to describe the screen I see but I don't know how to do a screen grab and then post it, like yours. Yet another thing I can't do! I'm the 11+ pupil* in the Garmin Honours Degree class.
* cue those too young for this one!

Rustle you will have seen something different because the map on your unit was already up to date apparently, you could have chosen re install if you thought there was a issue with it, and you were offered the choice to update the maps on my computer because they were obviously out of date.

What i suggest you do now is to plot a couple of fresh test routes in basecamp and send them to your nav, ensure all settings are the same in basecamp and nav.

Question - if I did as Richard suggests and create some more test routes, now that the maps are all in synch, does anyone think the test routes would now work.

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They should work, is the easy answer to that one….. and there’s only one way for you to find out.

I think I have got it worked out but I don’t pretend to understand why it’s happening, nor why it is giving differing results on a Nav V versus other devices and software. I have a series of screen shots to prepare which I hope to show before we get too much older. The problem, as it so often does, starts with the original route.

Here’s a taster, whilst you wait.

I cleared all the old Spanish test route files and routes out of BaseCamp on my Mac and out of my Nav V. I then found Rustle’s email with the Spanish route and downloaded it again to BaseCamp. It imported perfectly and, as far as I can see, follows known roads exactly. In other words, there are no spikes.





The route is 159 miles in length, which seems to be correct. It also has the many viapoints that Rustle put in to shape the route

BUT, there is one BIG oddity about it. The route displayed in BaseCamp has no estimated total journey time. That, I think is very unusual and suggests to me that there is something (I don’t know what) inherently wrong with the route as created originally.



That oddness and whatever it is that lurks behind it, then gets carried over to (and amplified by) the Nav V but more of that later.

I then created a track from the route. I did this for no other reason that I wanted a record of what the route looked like in case any subsequent changes might alter its shape completely.

This BaseCamp did for me, the 159 mile distance and roads taken matching perfectly. Tracks usually don’t have a journey time, so it not showing one did not concern me.





I then converted the track into a route, which gave me a perfect 159 miles distance AND an estimated journey time of 3 hours 14 minutes, which is believable.




I have:

1. An original route, correct in detail and mileage but with no estimated journey time.

2. A track, which matches the original route.

3. A duplicate route, created from the track of the original route, correct in detail and mileage but with the added bonus of an estimated journey time.

I then duplicated the original route (ie made an exact copy) and then asked BaseCamp to simply recalculate it. In other words, I didn’t change the transportation mode, which I left as motorbike. BaseCamp then offered up a route, perfect by distance at 159 miles and shape but with an estimated journey time of 3 hours 22 minutes. This differs a little bit from the 3 hours 14 minutes but not by enough to set alarm bells ringing.



I now have:

1. An original route, correct in detail and mileage but with no estimated journey time.

2. A track, which matches the original route.

3. A duplicate route, created from the track of the original route, correct in detail and mileage but with the added bonus of an estimated journey time.

4. A duplicate of route one, correct in shape and mileage but with a slightly different estimated journey time.

Now, it’s time to send the routes and track to my Nav V to see what it offers up.

But first a detour to see what MyRoute makes of it. In a word or two, the original route is near enough perfect:



It is the right shape, it has all the viapoints. The distance is a little different at 262.73 miles, but that is acceptable for a route that has been processed into another piece of software. The estimated journey time is 3 hours 31 minutes, which is again acceptable.

In short, the route works.

But now the fun and games start….

I sent the routes and the track to my Nav V.

The track imported perfectly:



The route created by taking the original route, converting it into a track and back into a route, imported perfectly, too. It is the right distance at 159 miles with a estimated journey time of three hours, an acceptable variation. It loses its via points but that is inevitable in a route that has come from a track.






So far so good.

Then the glitch that started this whole thread going.

A route, that appears perfect in BaseCamp but - and I think this is the important bit - lacks a journey time, imports badly into my Nav V:




The distance has gone out to 431 miles, the journey time to seven hours 10 minutes and the spikes have appeared. Why, I have no idea! But, in a version of the route on my Mac yesterday (stupidly I forgot to take a screen shot) I saw the reason that lurks behind the distance and time jumping up.

Last night, I saw that the corrupt route follows the magenta line, which is offset from the roads, ie it is not snapped onto the map properly. In BaseCamp you get arrows that follow the magenta line in the direction the route takes. The arrows went down each spike and then back up again, all the way along. In effect all but doubling the route’s distance and estimated time. So, the route, as originally created is - we know - corrupt.

I then sent the duplicate route, recalculated in BaseCamp and, ostensibly perfect, to my Nav V. That too, displayed imperfectly:





Exactly the same imperfections.

CONCLUSIONS:

1. There is something about the original route that is corrupt. Why it has no estimated journey time, I have no idea.

2. I can work out (but I forgot to take a screen shot) why the distance and time shoots up. It’s all down to the spikes, which are caused by a corrupt route.

2. Why that corruption manifests itself in the Nav V but not in MyRoute or (as I discovered way back) when I displayed it in Pocket Earth or on my XT, via my phone Garmin’s Drive app, I have no idea. Similarly, I have no idea why it displays perfectly for Lee on his devices. This is really odd.

3. Why the corruption ‘hides’ (I cannot think of another word) but then reappears on the Nav V, I have no idea at all. Maybe if I could read computer code, I could work out why.

4. Why the corruption vanishes and cures itself following a conversion from the corrupted route into a track and back again into a route, I have no idea. That it can also be made to vanish and cure itself by switching modes and switching back out again is something else. Clearly there is something in the conversion that cures the corruption. Quite what, I have no idea but I know that it’s often a cure.

5. Why a recalculation (not a conversion) corrects the route’s time but then fails to import properly into the Nav V, baffles me.

I think I have now gone as far as I can. Sorry, Rustle, I wish I knew why your original route is corrupt and why it works on some devices and softwares but not others.

Now that your maps are all up-to- date and matching, I can only suggest that you create some more test routes and let us know what happens.

Richard


PS I think we may be looking at the first failure of UKGSer to properly diagnose a full cause. The horror, as Colonel Kurtz said….

When i loaded the original route the one from your drop box Richard it did display the mileage correctly, as for the glitch appearing only in the nav V i cant explain either.

Just to add the original route showed as being created in car mode pic1and i swapped and recalculated to motorcycle mode made very little difference pic2

That’s even odder, Lee.

I can’t think why BaseCamp on a Mac doesn’t display the route’s distance. I can see, way back in my post #23 (created from the original Dropbox route) that the mileage is missing in BaseCamp on my Mac but that in your post #18 (created from the same file but displayed in BaseCamp on your PC) it is shown.

Very strange.

At some point, when BMW pull their collective fingers out, I may have my Nav VI back (unless I just go for a full cash refund) and will be able to try that device, instead of my Nav V.

yes Richard the mileage is there, have just edited last post with pictures, its even there when changing mode from car to bike.

I have now managed to recreate what I saw last night.

Here is the route that gets displayed on the Nav V, with its spikes and being offset from the map’s roads. The same corrupted version with its long distance and long estimated time.

Hopefully, people will be able to see the offset AND the route’s direction arrows going up to the tips of the spikes and back down again.




At least it shows what it happening and why but the real cause as to why it’s the Nav V that displays the fault remains a mystery. But I am getting a strange feeling looking at it, that it’s something in the way the route was first created by Rustler. It has to start there, surely? But how and why?

You can see that the corrupt route’s mileage has jumped (that’s understandable) but it’s ‘only’ 184 miles whereas the version on the Nav V is 431 miles but the time has, again, vanished:



It gets stranger and stranger! I am at a loss to understand it, let alone try to explain it.

I have a vague recollection that I saw a vaguely similar thing once on a route that I created incorporating a part brought over from Kurviger into BaseCamp on my Mac. I traced over a part of the Kurviger route, simply to incorporate its shape into another route. I then deleted the Kurviger route completely. Everything looked fine in BaseCamp.

I then sent the route to my Nav V, where on checking, it looked fine, everything matching.

Half way between Calais and Chimay the route, which had been functioning normally, suddenly showed me spikes, with several hundred miles remaining and hours to go before arrival in Chimay. It was plainly bollox. I stopped the route and reloaded it on the move. It went back to normal but then exploded again. I reloaded the route again and the same thing happened; spikes, miles to go and hours of travel ahead. Why it happened I have no idea. My guess is that some invisible ‘ghost’ from the deleted Kurviger route leaked across into my Nav V but why it was invisible (the route mileage and time etc all being correct in BaseCamp and on my Nav V on import) but why it ‘leaked’ across (if indeed it did) and then exploded into life half way through the morning I have no idea. But it’s not the same thing as we are seeing here.

That route with the spikes looks just like a route that may have been built on a totally different map system, and then transferred over to garmin basecamp, that in turn has tried to create it but failed.
But we know that the op used basecamp to create it, this is most strange .

leedude03 said:

That route with the spikes looks just like a route that may have been built on a totally different map system, and then transferred over to garmin basecamp, that in turn has tried to create it but failed.
But we know that the op used basecamp to create it, this is most strange .

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I agree with you, Lee. Absolutely. Logically, it can only be something corrupt within the original Spanish test route that Rustle created. Rustle tells us that it was all created in BaseCamp, with just a misfit in the maps installed on his PC and those on his Nav V. Unless we are missing something?

The screen shot in post #71 is the corrupted route which I have imported into BaseCamp from my Nav V. I am at a complete loss as to what caused (or causes) the corruption and - more importantly - why it only seems to manifest itself within a Nav V.

It would be great if someone else with BaseCamp and a Nav V (or a Nav VI or similar) could try it and report what they find, as I have run out of things to try. Similarly, if someone else proficient - or just lucky - in BaseCamp can see why it happens, that would be great. I really am stumped. We know the cure - and now how to prevent it within BaseCamp itself - but the why still alludes me. That is what is most frustrating.

Now that his maps are all lined up, we need Rustle to create some more test routes to see if the problem has gone away. If it has, it can remain a one-off mystery. If it hasn’t, something more needs to be sorted out at his end (we can help with that, I’m sure) or it really is a glitch peculiar to the Nav V. That, I am struggling to believe but you never know. If I lived closer to Garmin UK, I’d drop in to see them, to see if they can sort it out.

I will try to create Rustle’s Spanish test route by hand in BaseCamp and export it to my Navigator V. It should create perfectly and, more importantly, go straight across to my Nav V. If it does (I’d be amazed if it didn’t) we will know that it has to be something inside Rustle’s test route but it still won’t answer what it is or why it apparently only manifests itself with a Nav V.

Just for fun, I loaded this Spanish rout into my BC, (2-d mode), recalculated it and sent it to my Montana.
It just showed a straight lined zig-zag route of 228.2km.

About 2 minutes later the display changed and the route was shown as it was in BC.
266.3km and 3h55m.

Redboots said:

Just for fun, I loaded this Spanish rout into my BC, (2-d mode), recalculated it and sent it to my Montana.
It just showed a straight lined zig-zag route of 228.2km.

About 2 minutes later the display changed and the route was shown as it was in BC.
266.3km and 3h55m.

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Thank you.

The Spanish test route is 159 miles (254 km) in length. You seeing 266 km on your Montana, after conversion, is probably not too far adrift as it’s within 5% or there abouts. I’d live with that if the pictorial view of the route looked OK.

The two minute time period is I guess, just some internal processing (conversion) work going on within the Montana itself. Understandable, as I assume the Montana is limited in its computing power.

It all helps to confirm that there’s very possibly something odd about the Spanish test route. An oddness that carries through into the Nav V.

Wapping said:

It all helps to confirm that there’s very possibly something odd about the Spanish test route. An oddness that carries through into the Nav V.

Click to expand...

Or is changed in the transfer:

Comparing the gpx file on BC and that sent to the unit, there are a fair number of subclass entries (24) on the unit version that are "<gpxx:Subclass>000000000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</gpxx:Subclass>"
The first 4 bytes are used for the road type. 0000 indicates a footpath!

In the BC version there are none of these.
The first Subclass entries on the BC file, the first 4 bytes are 0600. Garmin uses this for road type = Residential, which is correct.

Could this be the error?

This is becoming more bizarre by the minute.

I created a virgin version of Rustle’s route, tracing over his route. It looked perfect in BaseCamp, correct in mileage at 159 miles, shape and time taken being 3 hours 22 minutes.

I then exported the newly created virgin route to my Nav V, where it arrived corrupted, the mileage leaping to 341 miles in 6 hours 25 minutes.

I can only suppose that something leaked across from Rustle’s corrupted route into my virgin route somehow, which the Nav V then picks up?

I am going to start again, first by deleting everything on my Nav V and everything in BaseCamp….

I am losing the will to live!

I created a virgin virgin version of Rustle’s route in BaseCamp, correct at 159 miles in three hours 21 minutes. This was done without tracing anything at all.

It has imported into my Nav V as 225 miles in three hours 45 minutes.

Just with Rustle, the route on my Nav V is offset from the roads and has spikes in it. I have zero idea why! I have never seen anything like it before.

I am now going to do what I suggested Rustle do, which is to create some more trial run routes and see if they load into my Nav V correctly. One in Spain, one in Germany and one in the UK. Each will be about 150 miles long and will have no parts where the routes double back on themselves. In other words they will be A to B via simple shaping points in between.