update on Bike fit

So, had a bike fit yesterday by Adrian Timmis, professional cyclist, ex Tour de France rider.
Took about 2 1/2 hours. Set my road bike up on his trainer machine and got me cycling on it. He videoed me cycling as a baseline to see how I was.
He said I did not look comfortable on the bike and that I was putting far too much weight on my arms probably giving rise to my neck and shoulder problems.
He started at the front of the bike, set the handlebar position and stripped the tape off. Then changed the lever positions and retaped the bars. Then went on to the seat height which he said was too low and also spent a fair amount of time with the saddle position. He did not like my saddle ( Rido) and said its design was to support my arse bones only and give no support to rest of my under carriage. He did put some other seats on which were a big improvement. My saddle made me pivot on it so when leaning forward weight was thrown onto the bars. He looked and checked cleat positions. Being a sports physio as well he checked my joints and muscles and flexibility and after much messing about the final ride and video was much better than when I came in. I had cycled 9.9km on his trainer during the bike fit.

Was it worth it:
lots of small adjustments were made and my ride home (20 miles) seemed fine. I need to get a new saddle but he wouldnt commit as they are a personal choice and he said the set is most important but said mine was not helping keeping the weight of my arms. His personal saddle was a Fizik one which I cringed at looking at as it probably would cripple me but then he is a road racer.
He did say when you buy a new bike, the shop adjusts the seat height and then you are on your way. He also said for a given size and use, most bikes have very similar geometry and it the person who differs so any serious rider should have the bike fitted to them.

Interesting thanks.

Many thanks for coming back on this....

Was he happy with your choice of frame size?

Frame size is my No1 ponder. I'm 178cm tall so would probably be a natural frame size 54 but I prefer a 56 (I know there's a lot more to it than that) I can't help thinking that If I took one of my bikes to a bike fitter he would say that I've picked the wrong frame size.

It's a long time since I bought a complete bike from a bike shop, I always buy a frame/fork and build them up myself. I spend ages pouring over frame geometry diagrams and I'm always on the cusp between a 54 and 56. i've heard that most cyclists buy bikes/frames that are too big. Maybe I'm one of them?

jonnie comet said:

Many thanks for coming back on this....

Was he happy with your choice of frame size?

Frame size is my No1 ponder. I'm 178cm tall so would probably be a natural frame size 54 but I prefer a 56 (I know there's a lot more to it than that) I can't help thinking that If I took one of my bikes to a bike fitter he would say that I've picked the wrong frame size.

It's a long time since I bought a complete bike from a bike shop, I always buy a frame/fork and build them up myself. I spend ages pouring over frame geometry diagrams and I'm always on the cusp between a 54 and 56. i've heard that most cyclists buy bikes/frames that are too big. Maybe I'm one of them?

Click to expand...

I’m 5’9” and buy medium or size 54. There was no comment on sizing. Sizing not only depends on height. Some bodies are short in legs and long in back or arms so I would think if you have shorter arms then a smaller frame may be better. There is a good degree of flexibility regarding sizing. I think the bike fitting exercise is designed to try and get you th fit your bike in the best possible position.
Interestingly, one local bike shop has a computerised exercise type machine which is fully adjustable and you can pay 99 of your finest English for it to tell you an approximate set up but also what size bike to buy and also the best geometry for you!

One other thing. He wasn’t keen on tubeless tyres. I run tubeless on my wheels and he commented that tubeless shouldn’t be run unless you are capable of maintaining and servicing them. He was not keen on adding sealant without cleaning old stuff out first and suggested doing this at least twice a year. He said more often or not a compressor or very high volume pump is needed to get them to seal and they are not so user friendly to change on some rim tyre combination. A spare tube and tools also needed to be carried at all times with them. He himself still uses tubes on his race bikes. We also had a chat about disc brakes. He said there main purpose was to allow wider tyres to be used. He himself had and still has no problem with rim brakes for stopping even at great speed. The only downside was rim wear in his case but he is quite happy to fit new rims when necessary.

Interesting stuff.

Re sizing, body length, arm length, leg length etc, an interesting observation. My son is a good 4" taller than me. I can't ride his bikes without raising the seat post, he then can't ride it without dropping it back down. To see us stood next to each other you would expect the opposite. When I say 'can't' I'm talking preference which MIGHT be dialled out by a bike fit.

For me the whole subject of tubeless smacks of hassle. There is not enough hassle in replacing a tube to warrant the (perceived) serious hassle of going tubeless. I'm guessing that I might change my mind in a year or two.

My experience with frame sizing is that generally, when you’re on the cusp of two sizes it’s better to go small. A small frame can be adapted with a longer stem and layback seatpost, not massively but enough to make a difference . That said, there’s no substitute for a bike fit. I was comfortable on a 53cm frame but in the end bought a 55cm as it gave me a slightly more upright position. A mate of similar size bought the 53cm then found, after a proper longish ride, that the handlebars were too low and couldn’t be shimmed up.

Greenman14 said:

My experience with frame sizing is that generally, when you’re on the cusp of two sizes it’s better to go small. A small frame can be adapted with a longer stem and layback seatpost, not massively but enough to make a difference . That said, there’s no substitute for a bike fit. I was comfortable on a 53cm frame but in the end bought a 55cm as it gave me a slightly more upright position. A mate of similar size bought the 53cm then found, after a proper longish ride, that the handlebars were too low and couldn’t be shimmed up.

Click to expand...

I am surprised a larger frame gave you a more upright position. I would have thought that the increase in top tube length would have given you a lower riding position.. I suppose it all depends on the seat position, stack height, stem length etc.
I suppose that’s when a bike fit comes into play!

I’m pleased the bike fitter, checked your cleat positions on the shoe, not many will do that. It’s pretty crucial how these are set to avoid injuries to your knees.

Interesting read, had you a specific reason for getting a new bike fit?

What will you do about the saddle?

I went tubeless probably three years ago and in that time had only one noticeable puncture during a ride and that needed a tube to get me home before new tyres. When I changed bike it came with tubes had my first puncture in probably 4,000 miles of going tubeless so now converted to tubeless.

After years of only riding mountain bikes, decided to try some road riding about 6 or 7 years ago.
Luckily used a very good shop who include a proper bike fit in the price. Cant remember the bike fit system brand, but included camera from the front and side to be able to measure and properly assess. The system was live to the supplier who did checks on the trained sales persons recommendations.
The shops view is that they would prefer to sell a bike that suits you as you will then use it, enjoy it and become a regular cyclist (and no doubt hopefully become a return customer I am sure)
They felt that most bikes - particularly road bikes - end up as dust collectors in the shed mainly due to discomfort or injury.
Further more, they also swapped out components (seat, bars in my case) at no additional cost to me to ensure proper fit. (the ones the bike came with can go back on the shelf)


Result of all this was that I rode regularly for 3 or 4 years (averaging 40 miles per outing) including a few sportifs and a 100 mile charity ride with absolutely no niggles, discomfort or injuries - including in the nether regions which I was a bit worried about due to the geometry of the seat. (as mentioned above, it is all down to making sure the sit bones are supported)
I did regularly use a watt bike while away at work before the bike fit and had found it to be uncomfortable after a few minutes, but once I set that up properly I never had any more issues.
Cycling is such a repetitive thing and the body such a complex system, that I think it is crazy to not take the accumulated professional advice (incl medical & physio) that has gone into a proper bike fit system - regardless of having to pay for it or not.

Mostly back on the mountain bikes at the moment - mainly due to riding with the children - but will be back on the road in the future.
Oh, and the shop's strategy has paid off - currently looking into buying another bike from them - 6th one from the same shop. Customer service has been second to none and they are not my local shop (did use the local one, but have regretted that for a number of reasons)

PS happy to mention the shop if that is permitted ...... small 5 shop chain in the west country. Was 3 last time I checked so they must be doing something right.

ymfb said:

Interesting read, had you a specific reason for getting a new bike fit?

What will you do about the saddle?

I went tubeless probably three years ago and in that time had only one noticeable puncture during a ride and that needed a tube to get me home before new tyres. When I changed bike it came with tubes had my first puncture in probably 4,000 miles of going tubeless so now converted to tubeless.

Click to expand...

The reason I went for a bike fit was neck and shoulder pain, particularly my right shoulder.
Time will tell if the fit makes any difference.
Regarding the saddle, none were recommended as the fitter said, everyone’s arse is different. He told me to try some friends saddles out just sitting on them for comfort to start with. One saddle he got me to try was one of those ones that time trial it’s use with the 2 pronged extensions at the front. Apart from the annoyance of feeling the extensions on the inside of my thighs it was very comfortable and I could lean a fair way forward without losing my balance so taking a lot of weight from my arms.
He wasn’t trying to sell me one but said a good saddle should give good support when moving about on it. He disliked mine because I was pivoting on it only on my pelvic bones.
One thing I failed to mention earlier was that he didn’t suggest changing the handlebar width. My shoulders are reasonably narrow and I though a narrower set of bars may help but he doubted it would make any difference. He said time trialists like narrow bars for aero reasons but the current trend for gravel bikes are fitting wider bars for more control over uneven ground. I did fit a slightly shorter stem before I went which he thought was a good idea for my riding position.

After years of only riding mountain bikes, decided to try some road riding about 6 or 7 years ago.
Luckily used a very good shop who include a proper bike fit in the price. Cant remember the bike fit system brand, but included camera from the front and side to be able to measure and properly assess. The system was live to the supplier who did checks on the trained sales persons recommendations.
The shops view is that they would prefer to sell a bike that suits you as you will then use it, enjoy it and become a regular cyclist (and no doubt hopefully become a return customer I am sure)
They felt that most bikes - particularly road bikes - end up as dust collectors in the shed mainly due to discomfort or injury.
Further more, they also swapped out components (seat, bars in my case) at no additional cost to me to ensure proper fit. (the ones the bike came with can go back on the shelf)


Result of all this was that I rode regularly for 3 or 4 years (averaging 40 miles per outing) including a few sportifs and a 100 mile charity ride with absolutely no niggles, discomfort or injuries - including in the nether regions which I was a bit worried about due to the geometry of the seat. (as mentioned above, it is all down to making sure the sit bones are supported)
I did regularly use a watt bike while away at work before the bike fit and had found it to be uncomfortable after a few minutes, but once I set that up properly I never had any more issues.
Cycling is such a repetitive thing and the body such a complex system, that I think it is crazy to not take the accumulated professional advice (incl medical & physio) that has gone into a proper bike fit system - regardless of having to pay for it or not.

Mostly back on the mountain bikes at the moment - mainly due to riding with the children - but will be back on the road in the future.
Oh, and the shop's strategy has paid off - currently looking into buying another bike from them - 6th one from the same shop. Customer service has been second to none and they are not my local shop (did use the local one, but have regretted that for a number of reasons)

PS happy to mention the shop if that is permitted ...... small 5 shop chain in the west country. Was 3 last time I checked so they must be doing something right.

Tall Terry said:

.......
The shops view is that they would prefer to sell a bike that suits you as you will then use it, enjoy it and become a regular cyclist (and no doubt hopefully become a return customer I am sure)

PS happy to mention the shop if that is permitted ...... small 5 shop chain in the west country. Was 3 last time I checked so they must be doing something right.

Click to expand...

It's great to read this 'long term view' still exists in some local bike shops.

Adrian, interesting to read his view on disc brakes.

After years of only riding mountain bikes, decided to try some road riding about 6 or 7 years ago.
Luckily used a very good shop who include a proper bike fit in the price. Cant remember the bike fit system brand, but included camera from the front and side to be able to measure and properly assess. The system was live to the supplier who did checks on the trained sales persons recommendations.
The shops view is that they would prefer to sell a bike that suits you as you will then use it, enjoy it and become a regular cyclist (and no doubt hopefully become a return customer I am sure)
They felt that most bikes - particularly road bikes - end up as dust collectors in the shed mainly due to discomfort or injury.
Further more, they also swapped out components (seat, bars in my case) at no additional cost to me to ensure proper fit. (the ones the bike came with can go back on the shelf)


Result of all this was that I rode regularly for 3 or 4 years (averaging 40 miles per outing) including a few sportifs and a 100 mile charity ride with absolutely no niggles, discomfort or injuries - including in the nether regions which I was a bit worried about due to the geometry of the seat. (as mentioned above, it is all down to making sure the sit bones are supported)
I did regularly use a watt bike while away at work before the bike fit and had found it to be uncomfortable after a few minutes, but once I set that up properly I never had any more issues.
Cycling is such a repetitive thing and the body such a complex system, that I think it is crazy to not take the accumulated professional advice (incl medical & physio) that has gone into a proper bike fit system - regardless of having to pay for it or not.

Mostly back on the mountain bikes at the moment - mainly due to riding with the children - but will be back on the road in the future.
Oh, and the shop's strategy has paid off - currently looking into buying another bike from them - 6th one from the same shop. Customer service has been second to none and they are not my local shop (did use the local one, but have regretted that for a number of reasons)

PS happy to mention the shop if that is permitted ...... small 5 shop chain in the west country. Was 3 last time I checked so they must be doing something right.

You're stuck on repeat Terry ????

DaveyB - not sure how that happened, but am at work and subject to the moods of the satcom .............

AdrianS said:

We also had a chat about disc brakes. He said there main purpose was to allow wider tyres to be used. He himself had and still has no problem with rim brakes for stopping even at great speed. The only downside was rim wear in his case but he is quite happy to fit new rims when necessary.

Click to expand...

Absolutely - I really enjoy a bit of downhill pace and my 1989 Dura Ace rim brakes are easily up to stopping my 100Kgs. They're strong and very progressive.

Thanks for sharing this post-fitting info, it's interesting to see how thorough your pro was. Hopefully this will give you lots more years of pain free cycling.

AdrianS said:

I am surprised a larger frame gave you a more upright position. I would have thought that the increase in top tube length would have given you a lower riding position.. I suppose it all depends on the seat position, stack height, stem length etc.
I suppose that’s when a bike fit comes into play!

Click to expand...

I was surprised as well, but the larger frame had a taller stack height (longer head tube) but the reach was almost the same. I do find that when I’m into a head wind, or going for it, or time trialling, it’s hard to get low enough and the smaller frame would have been better- it’s a compromise I’m happy with though.