Oh god no........More on Oil!!!

ianran

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Just thought Id share a couple of email conversations I had with Opie oils, this was prompted by a request for their recomendation for a 1200GSA. I then discussed with them the data sheet on Mottorads site with BMW speak!!

I bust my chops to be able to afford this bike and am pee'ed off with this constant attempt to milk me further:blast

From: Ian Ransom [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thu 05/08/2010 15:44
To: Opie Oils
Subject: Opie Oils - Recommend an Oil


The following enquiry was made from the Opie Oils Contact Form:

Name: Ian Ransom
Telephone: 01526345788
Email: [email protected]

CAR / BIKE DETAILS

Customer checked WOPR?: NO
Make: BMW
Model: R1200GS
Year: 2009
Engine Type: Petrol
Engine Model:
Modifications:
Driving Style:
Additional Information:
From: Opie Oils [[email protected]]
Sent: 05 August 2010 15:26
To: Ian Ransom
Subject: RE: Opie Oils - Recommend an Oil


Hi Ian

You need a 15w-50 oil and our selection is below

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-784-15w-50.aspx

The Silkolene Pro 4 and Motul 300V are two of the best oils on the market, but as a good value day to day oil, the Motul 5100 is a good choice.

Regards

Tim

OPIE OILS

From: Ransom, Ian P. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thu 05/08/2010 16:17
To: Opie Oils
Subject: RE: Opie Oils - Recommend an Oil


Hi
SOrry to be an anorak but I found the attached file on BMW web site if your users are to keep within the bounds of warranty then Im afraid
your recomendations are incorrect.

Regards
Ian


Sent: 05 August 2010 16:38
To: Ransom, Ian P.
Subject: RE: Opie Oils - Recommend an Oil


Ian,

Just had a look at that PDF, your bike comes under the boxer recommendation? Castrol/BMW's top choice is for the Castrol Power 1 Racing 10w-50 fully synthetic, this is actually an old oil that Castrol discontinued a few years ago, when BMW introduced the new R1200GS Castrol re released this oil as the preffered choice and is currently only available through BMW dealers (racketeering at its best!) What is interesting is they also recommend the Castrol ACT Evo 20w-50, and this could not be further apart quality wise from the 10w-50 as it is a basic mineral mulitgrade oil. So it spells out to me that the usual scaremongering tactics are in play often seen with BMW and Castrol.

It is against the law to only recommend one specific oil and that it can only be purchased from one place hense the suggestion of the use of the 20w-50 that is readily available. However both BMW and Castrol will scare owners as much as possible that their warranty will be invalid if the 10w-50 is not used. All other reputable bike oil manufacturers are recommending 10w-50, 15w-50 and also 20w-50 for use in the R1200GS.

I would be interested to see what you handbook has to say on this, among the viscosity 10w-50, 15w-50 etc you should see and API specification for the oil that should read something like API SF/SG, are you able to confirm?

Regards

Guy.

From: Ransom, Ian P. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thu 05/08/2010 20:09
To: Opie Oils
Subject: RE: Opie Oils - Recommend an Oil


Hi
I was out on iphone for my 1st reply. The handbook says API, SF or better or ACEA Class A" or better, according to Wollaston this will be updated!!!
My rsponse was that if it was that critical surely they should hand out a supplement to the handbook at time of sale!!!
Its all crap designed to scare!I will of course be using the cheaper option!

DOnt suppose you can supply the gearbox and final drive oils?

Regards
Ian

Ian,

Thanks for the confirmation on the handbook specs, as I suspected an API SF or better (using oils that meet these specs or above is what gives the customer freedom to use different oils, and ammo should there be a claim), the ACEA A stands for petrol, usually there will be a number after it so it will read like ACEA A3. As a point of interest ACEA B# stands for diesel.

For the gearbox and final drive you can use the same oil, the officialy BMW oil of choice is the Castrol SAF-XO here http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-737-castrol-saf-xo-75w-90-synthetic-final-drive-lubricant.aspx It is a very good oil, so I would go with it.

Regards

Guy.

OPIE OILS
 
Well that was an interesting read Ian, thanks
 
Good enough for me to stick with Act Evo 20/50 plus the SAF-XO for the gearbox/FD. Also glad I bought in bulk from Opie Oils which saved a bundle plus free shipping.
 
This seems like sense and so I've added this to the links in the sticky at the top.
 
Good to see that it's all so crystal clear what the best oil is for the 1200 :blast

I'm just sticking to what was recommended by the service guy at Rainbow, therefore if there's any warranty backlash they have to take responsibility.
 
Don't you just love these oil threads!

My 1200 GS agricultural tractor engine will need an oil service soon and with all the paranoia out there I thought I'd look at the service history to see what the 'Experts' at BMW Motorrad have used in the past.

590 miles
No record of what oil was in the bike at that time.

2628 miles
Castrol GPS 10w40

6149 miles
Castrol GPS 10w40
BMW Bristol also supplied 4 litres of Castrol 10w40 as the recommended top oil.


9004 miles
BMW Bristol
Castrol 20w50 ACT EVO 4T

So why the switch back to something used in the Ark? :nenau Oil you can only get from BMW dealerships. Is this a high reving sophisticated engine........I don't think so. They are taking the piss with this oil recommendation and the dealships will just go along with it and we pay the price for their 'sweetened deals'.

I'll be doing the next oil service so I'll pop down to the local chippie and see if he's got any old chip fat he's throwing out. Lol.
 
Robin B'stard said:
My 1200 GS agricultural tractor engine will need an oil service soon and with all the paranoia out there I thought I'd look at the service history to see what the 'Experts' at BMW Motorrad have used in the past.

590 miles
No record of what oil was in the bike at that time.

2628 miles
Castrol GPS 10w40

6149 miles
Castrol GPS 10w40
BMW Bristol also supplied 4 litres of Castrol 10w40 as the recommended top oil.


9004 miles
BMW Bristol
Castrol 20w50 ACT EVO 4T

So why the switch back to something used in the Ark? :nenau Oil you can only get from BMW dealerships. Is this a high reving sophisticated engine........I don't think so. They are taking the piss with this oil recommendation and the dealships will just go along with it and we pay the price for their 'sweetened deals'.

I'll be doing the next oil service so I'll pop down to the local chippie and see if he's got any old chip fat he's throwing out. Lol.
Click to expand...

Rainbow use putoline as it's cheaper :thumb2
 
I went through this in depth with my R1150GS - and have been through many similar discussions with other vehicle owners about what oil is best.

The bottom line is to stick to the recommended oil for the bike, and change it as recommended (or sooner)

In the case of the R1200's, that is (quoted from the handbook of my 56 plate R1200R):-
"20W-50 API classification SF or better.ACEA classification A2 or better."
(and the usual comment about avoiding synthetic oils for the first 6000 miles.) There is also a table of recommended viscosities for various temperatures (more on that in a bit...)
This is very similar to the old 1150.

The SF rating is a pretty basic rating - these engines are basic, and don't therefore need anything fancy. (I admit - I'm not sure about the 2010 models though).

The 10w50 synthetic that's in mine at the moment would seem to be a significant over specification - especially at the extortionate price.

If you look at oil designed for simple classic cars - for example Duckhams Classic 20w50 - this has an SJ rating, and served me for years in my old 1150. I never really rode at temperatures below freezing - and it was cheap. I changed it at about 4000 mile intervals, and never had a problem...

It's interesting that Bristol BMW use 10W40. The last time I discussed it with them for the 1150 - they recommended the 20w50, as the 10w40 can result in noisy valve gear (which I can confirm on the 1150) I'll be having a chat with them about that...

Also - the ambient temperature range for the 10w40 is -10 degrees C to 30 degrees C. The Lower limit is very unlikely to be breached in the UK. Yet the upper limit might well be breached during summer months - especially if any continental touring is done - worth thinking about during the summer months!

20w50 has an ambient operating temperature of 0 degrees upward - which would seem to be more sensible for UK riding.

10w50 would seem to be the perfect alternative, but this is hideously expensive (£60 plus from riders) - I would think better to change the oil three times than fill the bike with this over specified oil...

Simple rules apply here - and they apply to nearly all vehicles / engines.

1. Do what it says in the book - use the recommended oil and change it at the recommended frequency (or sooner).

2. Don't cane it from cold - something like 90% of engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds after startup. Ride gently until she's fully warmed up (then give it hell!)

3. Beware short rides (perhaps less imprtant to bikes!). If your bike does lots of short journeys, then change the oil more often, as the oil will get diluted by the petrol washing past the bores. And this petrol and any moisture won't get burned off if the bike doesn't fully warm through.

The last point is a problem with big old classic cars (and cars that do the 2 mile run to the shops and back) - the owners start them, drive them out into the open, wash them, and put them back in the garage. Because they only do 1500 miles a year - they don't need to change the oil for 4 years - don't they???

By obeying these rules, I have, in many years of motoring, never had any engine wear related issues. My 100,000 mile Sierra's camshaft had barely perceptible wear on it when I changed the head gasket!
 
Extortionate Depends where you you buy it.

Captain Beaky said:
I went through this in depth with my R1150GS - and have been through many similar discussions with other vehicle owners about what oil is best.

The bottom line is to stick to the recommended oil for the bike, and change it as recommended (or sooner)

In the case of the R1200's, that is (quoted from the handbook of my 56 plate R1200R):-
"20W-50 API classification SF or better.ACEA classification A2 or better."
(and the usual comment about avoiding synthetic oils for the first 6000 miles.) There is also a table of recommended viscosities for various temperatures (more on that in a bit...)
This is very similar to the old 1150.

The SF rating is a pretty basic rating - these engines are basic, and don't therefore need anything fancy. (I admit - I'm not sure about the 2010 models though).

The 10w50 synthetic that's in mine at the moment would seem to be a significant over specification - especially at the extortionate price.

If you look at oil designed for simple classic cars - for example Duckhams Classic 20w50 - this has an SJ rating, and served me for years in my old 1150. I never really rode at temperatures below freezing - and it was cheap. I changed it at about 4000 mile intervals, and never had a problem...

It's interesting that Bristol BMW use 10W40. The last time I discussed it with them for the 1150 - they recommended the 20w50, as the 10w40 can result in noisy valve gear (which I can confirm on the 1150) I'll be having a chat with them about that...

Also - the ambient temperature range for the 10w40 is -10 degrees C to 30 degrees C. The Lower limit is very unlikely to be breached in the UK. Yet the upper limit might well be breached during summer months - especially if any continental touring is done - worth thinking about during the summer months!

20w50 has an ambient operating temperature of 0 degrees upward - which would seem to be more sensible for UK riding.

10w50 would seem to be the perfect alternative, but this is hideously expensive (£60 plus from riders) - I would think better to change the oil three times than fill the bike with this over specified oil...

Simple rules apply here - and they apply to nearly all vehicles / engines.

1. Do what it says in the book - use the recommended oil and change it at the recommended frequency (or sooner).

2. Don't cane it from cold - something like 90% of engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds after startup. Ride gently until she's fully warmed up (then give it hell!)

3. Beware short rides (perhaps less imprtant to bikes!). If your bike does lots of short journeys, then change the oil more often, as the oil will get diluted by the petrol washing past the bores. And this petrol and any moisture won't get burned off if the bike doesn't fully warm through.

The last point is a problem with big old classic cars (and cars that do the 2 mile run to the shops and back) - the owners start them, drive them out into the open, wash them, and put them back in the garage. Because they only do 1500 miles a year - they don't need to change the oil for 4 years - don't they???

By obeying these rules, I have, in many years of motoring, never had any engine wear related issues. My 100,000 mile Sierra's camshaft had barely perceptible wear on it when I changed the head gasket!
Click to expand...


Q8 SBK Racing 10W - 50
Specifications API SL, JASO MA, ACEA A3

£18 x 4L £94 x 25L

Oil Distributor McCulloch oils Poulton Le Fylde Tel 01253893388

I use this in my 2010, took it to the Dealers for the 6K service and they were happy to put this spec in.

Best regards Stretch :beerjug:
 
I would like to add one thing - everyone says these engines are agricultural but over the years the valve gear has been getting more and more sophisticated and the rev limit rising. I think that is a good reason to use a better oil.
My take is to use a 10 or even 5 weight oil for the cold start and te get it around the engine quickly, and a 50 or even 60 at the upper end for when its hot, especially on a higher mileage engine. Good oil is about peace of mind more than economics to me. My old man is on 105,000 km and sounds smooth and nice.
 
more oil

I've been using Morris's oils for years after they were reccomended to me by my mechanic at the time, a well respected bloke locally. I've used them in my cars and bikes. My Z400s engine let go on Castrol, then I switched to these guys..............
They do a 10W50 bike oil, might be worth a look

http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/Scripts/prodview.asp?sku=SSV

(and no, I don't work for them or sell it myself!)
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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