Flat battery canbus & Sat Nav

Dario

Dario

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Sometime ago i posted that my Zumo 220 was drawing power while not actually connected to the bike ie unit was wired to the bikes accessory socket and ignition switched off. So i had just taken to unplugging the socket when i was off the bike and this solved the problem. My dealer advised me that if the unit was wired into the power outlet at the headstock this would not happen. My bike was getting serviced last week ( 2 year 12k service horsed for £384 ffs ) and the Zumo was wired to the headstock outlet.Bike came back on Thursday. Out on it Saturday no problem. Tried to go to the IAM tonight and guess what the battery is flat as a pancake. Will be taking this up Dalkeith and Garmin:eh
 
Okay we ( BMW Dalkeith ) are of the opinion that the wiring unit for this 220 is either faulty or not compatible with the Gs 's Canbus. Spoke to Garmin they are sending me a new wiring unit. Will try this and let you know the out come.
 
Dario said:
Okay we ( BMW Dalkeith ) are of the opinion that the wiring unit for this 220 is either faulty or not compatible with the Gs 's Canbus. Spoke to Garmin they are sending me a new wiring unit. Will try this and let you know the out come.
Click to expand...
save yourself the grief and just wire it direct to the battery with the in line fuse supplied with the lead.:thumb
 
Pablo1 said:
save yourself the grief and just wire it direct to the battery with the in line fuse supplied with the lead.:thumb
Click to expand...

I know your are right in what you say but i've just got a bee in my bonnet about it now. If their replacement wiring does the same i will ask them to either replace my 220 will a recon 660 ( plus cash to them ) or money back. It would appear both the 550 and 660 models get power from the cradle units which in turn are wired to the outlet at the headstock. Unlike the 220 the wiring for the other two models does not feature an in line step down transformer ( which BMW believe is the problem).
BTW how did the trip go ?

Dario :aidan
 
Dario said:
I know your are right in what you say but i've just got a bee in my bonnet about it now. If their replacement wiring does the same i will ask them to either replace my 220 will a recon 660 ( plus cash to them ) or money back. It would appear both the 550 and 660 models get power from the cradle units which in turn are wired to the outlet at the headstock. Unlike the 220 the wiring for the other two models does not feature an in line step down transformer ( which BMW believe is the problem).
BTW how did the trip go ?

Dario :aidan
Click to expand...

trip was magic, give you all detail next time we meet:thumb
 
Dario said:
I know your are right in what you say but i've just got a bee in my bonnet about it now. If their replacement wiring does the same i will ask them to either replace my 220 will a recon 660 ( plus cash to them ) or money back. It would appear both the 550 and 660 models get power from the cradle units which in turn are wired to the outlet at the headstock. Unlike the 220 the wiring for the other two models does not feature an in line step down transformer ( which BMW believe is the problem).
BTW how did the trip go ?

Dario :aidan
Click to expand...

I doubt that a step down transformer is used because a transformer only works with a.c. the bike power supply is d.c. so I think that they are talking bollix!
 
Sounds like your chain is being pulled. You are wired into the BMW headstock connector. This is live when the ignition is on and dead otherwise. So with the ignition off, there will be no power to the sat nav and so it cannot drain your battery.

The only thing I can think of is that for some reason the power to your headstock GPS connector is always live (ie bike faulty). Easy to check with a multimeter or by dealer. Has this been done?

But FWIW I have my satnave permanently wire to the battery. I just switch the unit off. However I have left it on overnight before but as current draw is so low the impact on the battery is feck all.

BTW there is no step down transformer for DC. All the motorbike and car Garmins run off 12v DC.
 
Re - 'step down transformer', he might be referring to a 12v / 5v dc convertor. I have one wired in for my Tom Tom. :)
 
WindyChuffer said:
Sounds like your chain is being pulled. You are wired into the BMW headstock connector. This is live when the ignition is on and dead otherwise. So with the ignition off, there will be no power to the sat nav and so it cannot drain your battery.

The only thing I can think of is that for some reason the power to your headstock GPS connector is always live (ie bike faulty). Easy to check with a multimeter or by dealer. Has this been done?

But FWIW I have my satnave permanently wire to the battery. I just switch the unit off. However I have left it on overnight before but as current draw is so low the impact on the battery is feck all.

BTW there is no step down transformer for DC. All the motorbike and car Garmins run off 12v DC.
Click to expand...

be careful - my car Garmin (and others i have seen) power lead puts out 5V DC and my old RAC one was the same, any sat nav with a USB or mini USB style connector is likely to be 5v DC, i believe most are like this especially if a cradle is involved

also see previous threads about 12/5v convertors draining the bike battery if left connected to a perm battery source (but i agree with the post higher up, the headstock socket is controlled by the ign switch, I know as I have LED marker lamps on it!)
 
ISTR Some of the early 660 mounts did the same. Something to do with the gps not getting the message to shut down. If all is working properly the sat nav will ask you if you want to shut down not long after you turn the ignition off.
 
Can bus

The can bus system should shut down after 5 mins (app) the power to the socket outlet ( unless plugged into a BM charger)and the sat nav outlet near headstock. Unless the garmin is somehow confusing the canbus ? but I have wired all manner of relays ,sat navs into the outlet near headstock and they all power down.
Like they said use a meter to check voltage shuts down after 5 mins key off.
 
walrus said:
ISTR Some of the early 660 mounts did the same. Something to do with the gps not getting the message to shut down. If all is working properly the sat nav will ask you if you want to shut down not long after you turn the ignition off.
Click to expand...

Bollox. There is no message sent to tell the gps to shut down. Simply cutting the power prompts it to power off.
 
ISTR Some of the early 660 mounts did the same. Something to do with the gps not getting the message to shut down. If all is working properly the sat nav will ask you if you want to shut down not long after you turn the ignition off.
Click to expand...

Bollox. There is no message sent to tell the gps to shut down. Simply cutting the power prompts it to power off.
Click to expand...

So if the power doesn't cut off completely it doesn't get the message?


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548491
 
walrus said:
So if the power doesn't cut off completely it doesn't get the message?


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548491
Click to expand...

It's not a message! When you switch your bed side light off, you are flicking a switch, not sending it a message.

Power is either on or off.

If the Canbus connector (or other power supply) fails to power off then that isn't a problem with the satnav. Simple.
 
I have posted about this before so apologise if I am repeating myself.

If I leave my ancient Garmin quest plugged into the accessory socket under the seat it DOES flatten the battery on my 2010 GS over a couple of days or so when the bike is left with the ignition off, this did not happen on my 2005 GS.

The underseat socket also doubles up as the bike battery charger socket for the BMW clever charger.

I think that when the bike ignition is turned off the socket under the seat turns off after a few mins EXCEPT if it detects a voltage is present - if it detects a voltage present on this socket immediately after the ignition is turned off, then I believe that it keeps the bike's electronics 'live' to control the charging of the battery. The Garmin cradle may well contain a capacitor on the input side of the 12V to 5v regulator which holds the voltage up just long enough to 'fool' the bike's electronics into believing a charger is plugged in and keeps the bike's electronics 'live' and it is this that slowly but surely discharges the battery.

I have yet to get around to testing this idea but will eventually! until I get round to it I just unplug the cradle from the socket before I turn off the ignition.

I also suspect that the front accessory socket is the same as the underseat one as far as the bike's electronics is concerned.
 
Engineer said:
I have posted about this before so apologise if I am repeating myself.

If I leave my ancient Garmin quest plugged into the accessory socket under the seat it DOES flatten the battery on my 2010 GS over a couple of days or so when the bike is left with the ignition off, this did not happen on my 2005 GS.

The underseat socket also doubles up as the bike battery charger socket for the BMW clever charger.

I think that when the bike ignition is turned off the socket under the seat turns off after a few mins EXCEPT if it detects a voltage is present - if it detects a voltage present on this socket immediately after the ignition is turned off, then I believe that it keeps the bike's electronics 'live' to control the charging of the battery. The Garmin cradle may well contain a capacitor on the input side of the 12V to 5v regulator which holds the voltage up just long enough to 'fool' the bike's electronics into believing a charger is plugged in and keeps the bike's electronics 'live' and it is this that slowly but surely discharges the battery.

I have yet to get around to testing this idea but will eventually! until I get round to it I just unplug the cradle from the socket before I turn off the ignition.

I also suspect that the front accessory socket is the same as the underseat one as far as the bike's electronics is concerned.
Click to expand...

Your theory sounds correct. My battery went flat when first i plugged the unit into the accessory outlet ( this stopped as soon as i took to unplugging from the said socket). The exact same thing happens now that the unit is powered from the outlet at the headstock (even though BMW said this would not happen). As i have said Garmin said that the cable maybe faulty ( bollox ) and are sending me out a replacement to test.
According to BMW they do not have this problem with the 550 or 660 Zumos which take their power from their cradle units. If the replacement cable from Garmin does not solve the problem i will ask them to send me a cable/cradle unit from a 660 to test.
 
Engineer's theory sounds very plausible to me. One worthy of discussion with your dealer. An undocumented Canbus feature? In my mind there is an easy way around this:

Power the GPS from the battery, but with a relay in the way on the positive feed frozm the battery. Relay is triggered by any switched live on the bike. When the bike is switched off, relay switches off cutting power to the GPS.

Any auto electrician can do this, and is a straightforward DIY job. Plenty on this forum on this topic.

Simples.
 
WindyChuffer said:
Engineer's theory sounds very plausible to me. One worthy of discussion with your dealer. An undocumented Canbus feature? In my mind there is an easy way around this:

Power the GPS from the battery, but with a relay in the way on the positive feed frozm the battery. Relay is triggered by any switched live on the bike. When the bike is switched off, relay switches off cutting power to the GPS.

Any auto electrician can do this, and is a straightforward DIY job. Plenty on this forum on this topic.

Simples.
Click to expand...
Might be tempted to try re-wiring my Zumo 550 something similar. Mines currently used with it's cradle wired to the headstock canbus socket .... If I turn the ignition off the Garmin recognises it and shows a screen that states power has been lost and gives me the choice to continue on battery power. Hit "no" and the unit turns off ....... then starts up again a short while later! In general the Garmin battery is completely dead because whenever I leave the bike it powers up again. It's as if the canbus feed is not a consistent voltage and is somehow fooling the Garmin?
Last week I rode to Germany and coming back had the Garmin go completely dead on me to the point where it just wouldn't start up, which after being on the bike continuously it should have been fully charged! There's definitely some black magic in the canbus system that my Garmin doesn't like!
The bikes battery is never an issue though.
 
+1 for relay
Wired my GPS via a Fuzeblock. Works perfectly. Switched with the ignition, always goes off properly and no possibility of staying on or draining the battery. Sometimes the CanBus is a bit too smart for its own good.
 
Dario

I had a similar problem with an F800ST and a TomTom Rider. The TT would keep the canbus power on which flattened the battery. The TT has a setting that switches the TT off if no power is detected. Once I activated that setting I never had a flat battery problem again.

I don't know if Garmin has a similar setting.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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