Front Caliper pistons seized, wish I hadn't looked

Having a look round my bike brakes today I noticed the O/s pads were badly worn compared to the other side. Two pistons were seized I tried using the Hydraulic pressure to force the pistons out & guess what, a piston popped out together with seal & loss of a little fluid. Its an ABS system on a 2005 GSA .
I called in to my local dealership £60 for repair kit seals & pistons, I think I van get away with replacing the seals only.
1. where can i get the seals.
2. Discussed situation with dealers mechanic about bleeding system after the relevant repairs been done. He gave a sharp intake of breath & quoted in the region of £140. Any special tools reqd ?

I received a quote from a BM dealer for £170.39 to replace the brake fluid on my 55 plate 1150!

that did include £8.97 for the fluid so not as bad as sounded at first.......

If you do a search I think you will find that the main thing needed is container/system to top up the fluid in the servo unit, (possibly on Adv Rider) I seem to remember a spare filler cap being drilled and a funnel secured in it to act as a top up reservoir. The reservoir on the lever on the handlebars only contains the fluid to activate the servo and is totally separate circuit from the calipers.

Apologies if this is all bollox I could have been dreaming again....

B

Just doesn't sit right with me, says he's allowed an hours labour, providing I don't have to spend a load on any special tack to do the job, I prefer to have a go my self, but I cant find anyone who supplies the seal kits.

Have you tried motorworks?

http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=HA&SbCt=BA_15_30_HA_32

This may get you close to what you need.

OWDGEESER said:

Have you tried motorworks?

http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=HA&SbCt=BA_15_30_HA_32

This may get you close to what you need.

Click to expand...

Yep, thanks same price as main dealer.

Hi Bobsnew

I have a 36K mile, 03 GSA with BMW (tokico) EVO calipers. Although my bike has had the servo and ABS removed, some of this info might be useful for you.

On my test ride just before buying this bike before Christmas, The front RHS caliper seized on solid. I eventually managed to free up the pads when the unit cooled down and limped the bike back. After knocking a considerable few quid off the asking price and subsequently buying the bike, when I got it home, I stripped the calipers to find the inside of both of them were badly corroded and most of the 8 pistons were in shyte. This happened from salt getting past the 'dust' seals, corroding the pistons and eventually getting past the fluid seal. My bike was originally a UK bike but brought over to Ireland in late 2006. It had been sitting up for 4 months prior to this 'eventful' ride.

Unfortunatley, owing to the condition of my brakes, The only option for me was to break the BMW 'golden rule' by splitting the calipers so I could free 2 of the seized solid pistons.

The Rule of Thumb with dual front brakes is do the same for both sides at the same time so I bought 2 caliper repair kits from Joe Duffy Motorrad at a cost just shy of €155 (including a discount!!) This 'golden rule' that I broke by splitting them I recon is just because the joining seals between the 2 mating faces are not included in the repair kit nor are available from BMW seperately but with a bit of research and careful measuring, I found out what I needed. The measurements for these are 11.5mmOD x 6.5mmID x 2.2mm and they are square in cross section and MUST BE MADE OF EPDM RUBBER see here - http://www.marcorubber.com/epr.htm

With a bit of digging around I found that these are available individually from Kawasaki (part no. 43049- 1004) and Honda (part no. 45103-MEL-003) and are about £2.25 each.

I am still waiting for a delivery from Cradley Kawasaki of these seals but I only ordered them yesterday so I'm hoping to have them for early next week.

My mate, who is a meticulous mechanic, a perfectionist and also a gifted Mondello Park track whore/racer on a Kawasaki zx6, is helping me with the rebuild and recons that the 'DO NOT SPLIT' theory is pure b0[[ox and is only a ploy to make you buy new calipers as the only part that seals the system inside the caliper are these 2 'square rings' other than the fluid seals on the pistons and the copper washers on the banjo bolts!!

These 2 little seals on both calipers were by far in the worst condition of all the seals so if you are having trouble bleeding your brakes, aside from the servo unit, this is one little spot that air could be creeping back into the system.

All going to plan, I should be back on the road early next week with brakes that feel like brand new.

Sorry for the long winded post


Dave

Just done mine last month. Nothing tricky just make sure you don't damage the housing for the piston by scratching it. Get a one way. bleed pipe -speed bleed - and just pump away. Took me about an hour per side. I used bmw as couldn't be arse with all the different types of caliper so just gave them reg and they gave me right ones.

ozziesda said:

The Rule of Thumb with dual front brakes is do the same for both sides at the same time so I bought 2 caliper repair kits from Joe Duffy Motorrad at a cost just shy of €155 (including a discount!!) This 'golden rule' that I broke by splitting them I recon is just because the joining seals between the 2 mating faces are not included in the repair kit nor are available from BMW seperately but with a bit of research and careful measuring, I found out what I needed. The measurements for these are 11.5mmOD x 6.5mmID x 2.2mm and they are square in cross section and MUST BE MADE OF EPDM RUBBER see here - http://www.marcorubber.com/epr.htm

With a bit of digging around I found that these are available individually from Kawasaki (part no. 43049- 1004) and Honda (part no. 45103-MEL-003) and are about £2.25 each.

Click to expand...

This is really useful info, especially as i thought about spliting the calipers some weeks back (but took Steptoe's advice and avoided it...for now).

I just wonder about your comment that the O-rings are square in section. Are you positive? Have they not just become square from being squashed into this shape and because of age just not returned to a circular section on disassembly?

Good luck getting yours all back together. I would be happy to hear of a success story about splitting the calipers


Sorry, back on topic! If you're on for a go to service the calipers, go for it, but sounds like you might have to give-in and buy the complete service kits....

Hi, thank you for your experiences, I am unsure about the O rings being square in section, one of the outer dust rings has popped out. My dealership tells me there is not a kit available for the integrated system on mine and that was echoed by an independent brake factors webco I believe. Strange that you are able to get the seals for yours from Cradley, passed by there only today.
Read a few posts on bleeding on adv rider site and looks doable but not straight forward and needs a reservoir to sit on abs.

Hi slipperyeel and bobsnew.



The joining seals are 100% definitely square in cross section and not standard O-rings.

I too would bite the bullet bobsnew and completely overhaul the calipers with new parts if you have gone that far with stripping them. Piece of mind and knowing all you'd have to do is fluid and pad changes once you're on top of them maintenance wise. The comfort knowing when you pull your brake lever that your brakes work properly is invaluable.

Anyway, hoping to have the seals here on either Mon or Tues so will be putting the calipers back on the bike asap and will let you know straight away.

Dave

what is the problem splitting these calipers anyway, aside from getting the seals?

i've done loads of other models, and never any problem

cookie said:

what is the problem splitting these calipers anyway, aside from getting the seals?

i've done loads of other models, and never any problem

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. There is no logical reason why they can not be split as long as you have the seals to rebuild them. Aside from the torx bolts joining the caliper halves being a whore to loosen, I honestly do not see a problem splitting them just like other bikes.

ozziesda said:

Absolutely agree. There is no logical reason why they can not be split as long as you have the seals to rebuild them. Aside from the torx bolts joining the caliper halves being a whore to loosen, I honestly do not see a problem splitting them just like other bikes.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info/confirmation on the O-rings really being square. I just wanted to check. Thanks too for the links of where to find them. Think I'll get some and keep them handy for the spring when i am more likely to do this job.

Cookie: I think you are probably right about splitting the calipers. I suspect the bolts being a b**ch to undo and then finding replacement seals is the main reason for people avoiding the job (any tips on torque for reassembly?)

Back onto the thread: In my view if the pistons are remotely pitted/scored/badly corroded i don't think there is any point avoiding replacement, it's just putting off the inevitable...

ozziesda said:

Hi slipperyeel and bobsnew.

The joining seals are 100% definitely square in cross section and not standard O-rings.

I too would bite the bullet bobsnew and completely overhaul the calipers with new parts if you have gone that far with stripping them. Piece of mind and knowing all you'd have to do is fluid and pad changes once you're on top of them maintenance wise. The comfort knowing when you pull your brake lever that your brakes work properly is invaluable.

Anyway, hoping to have the seals here on either Mon or Tues so will be putting the calipers back on the bike asap and will let you know straight away.

Dave

Click to expand...

When I spoke about the seals I was thinking of the dust 0 rings and the O rings as illustrated on the BMW parts diagram the ones around the actual pistons, I am hoping to free off the seized pistons whilst still on the bike & using the hydraulic pressure to hopefully free them, I have read of others using air pumps and so forth but I am using the theory that greater pressure can be applied that way, once If have achieve that what is the advantage of splitting the caliper. ? Some one suggests boiling the calipers in a saucepan with washing soda to decontaminate them from all crap & salt residue. ?

bobsnew said:

Hi, thank you for your experiences, I am unsure about the O rings being square in section, one of the outer dust rings has popped out. My dealership tells me there is not a kit available for the integrated system on mine and that was echoed by an independent brake factors webco I believe. Strange that you are able to get the seals for yours from Cradley, passed by there only today.
Read a few posts on bleeding on adv rider site and looks doable but not straight forward and needs a reservoir to sit on abs.

Click to expand...

It's fairly straight forwards making a filler/reservoir for the ABS/Servo unit ...get a plastic funnel and cut the spout so it is just an undersize fit in the threaded filler holes. Wrap a couple of turns of electrical self amalgamating tape round the end of the spout and gently screw the spout into the hole. If you have got it right you will end up with a tapped thread cut into the tape which will give a leakproof seal. Once done you can re-use on the other filler.
Job done.

after splinting the caliper both faces have to be free of crap

when i done my TZRs calipers i split them and uses a very fine oil stone to reface them
then re oil the seals with brake fluild resemble capiler

west coast traveller said:

It's fairly straight forwards making a filler/reservoir for the ABS/Servo unit ...get a plastic funnel and cut the spout so it is just an undersize fit in the threaded filler holes. Wrap a couple of turns of electrical self amalgamating tape round the end of the spout and gently screw the spout into the hole. If you have got it right you will end up with a tapped thread cut into the tape which will give a leakproof seal. Once done you can re-use on the other filler.
Job done.

Click to expand...

Ah thanks for that, & do you use any bleeding tool, pardon the pun, thinking of eazibleed or alike. ?

Black Rooster said:

when i done my TZRs calipers i split them and uses a very fine oil stone to reface them

Click to expand...

i have never done that, or needed to

...and how flat was the oil stone?

bobsnew said:

Ah thanks for that, & do you use any bleeding tool, pardon the pun, thinking of eazibleed or alike. ?

Click to expand...

I never have and have followed Steptoes advice on this (see threads). The job is fairly simple as long as you are confident with your ability working with brakes. Usually takes about 45 minutes to bleed but worth cleaning calipers whilst you are at it. Only advice fwiw would be to have an open ended and ring spanner for the servo unit nipples (7mm I think). Good luck

west coast traveller said:

I never have and have followed Steptoes advice on this (see threads). The job is fairly simple as long as you are confident with your ability working with brakes. Usually takes about 45 minutes to bleed but worth cleaning calipers whilst you are at it. Only advice fwiw would be to have an open ended and ring spanner for the servo unit nipples (7mm I think). Good luck

Click to expand...

Hi, other than routine pad changes etc, this is my 1st experience, when i have managed the seized pistons, I will attempt the bleed, I have the impression there is a significant difference from standard ABS to integrated ABS. ?